Section 8 submission

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    Section 8 submission

    I want to evict my tenant who has 2.4 months rent arrears, I was planning to just suck up the loss and go with the section 21 accelerated possession, however I was told (just before I sent the court forms) that my section 21 was invalid. I had not used the form from the government site, although my form had the same information. Anyway 2 months wasted and more rent arrears.

    Today I served a valid section 21 and a section 8. The tenant has more than 2 months arrears (rent paid monthly), and I have used ground 8,10,11 I have a letter to the tenant from July asking for full payment of rent. They get housing benefit and were supposed to make up the difference between housing benefit and the rent, they never did.

    No deposit was taken, and I gave the tenant how to rent booklet gas cert and EPC. The section 21 is dated for just over 2 months (8 Jan) and the section 8 20th November. More than the 14 days required.

    Now here is my question the Assured short-hold tenancy agreement expired today. So can I still use section 8 ? and will the tenancy automatically roll over to a periodic tenancy? I also read somewhere that you can add more grounds later, the letter I gave the tenant in July also mentioned damage to the property and causing a nuisance, lots of witnesses willing to testify if needed. The letter was also given to the tenant by the police, who were raiding the house when the letter was delivered. They asked if we could leave the letter with them till the operation at the house had finished, later they confirmed it had been given to the tenant, and would be willing to confirm that.

    #2
    Who told you your form was invalid? Your tenant, or the council? To paraphrase Mandy Rice-Davies, well, they would, wouldn't they?

    Comment


      #3
      You could use the s8 form but if they bring the debt down to just below the 2 month threshold, the case will fail in court. They could also try to defend it with claims of disrepair which would cause delays.

      If the fixed term has ended then a new periodic tenancy will automatically have arisen. S8 and s21 will still be usable. Do you have evidence that you issued the tenant with the gsc, epc and How to Rent, preferably something with their signature? If so, then I would still go with s21 myself. They are clearly getting advice and will probably try every trick to delay the inevitable.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by JK0 View Post
        Who told you your form was invalid? Your tenant, or the council? To paraphrase Mandy Rice-Davies, well, they would, wouldn't they?
        Yes the council, to be honest I didn't want to take the chance, and it seems they are right you need to use the correct form.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by DPT57 View Post
          You could use the s8 form but if they bring the debt down to just below the 2 month threshold, the case will fail in court. They could also try to defend it with claims of disrepair which would cause delays.
          They owe more than £1000 and I don't think there is anyway they can pay, so I feel the ground 8 is safe, also have ground 10,11 to fall back on. They have not asked for any repairs at all the house is in very good condition, or it was. There was a problem with the gas but called British gas and it was fixed the next day.

          Originally posted by DPT57 View Post
          If the fixed term has ended then a new periodic tenancy will automatically have arisen. S8 and s21 will still be usable. Do you have evidence that you issued the tenant with the gsc, epc and How to Rent, preferably something with their signature? If so, then I would still go with s21 myself. They are clearly getting advice and will probably try every trick to delay the inevitable.
          I have a photograph of the EPC and Gas cert left on the kitchen side, I don't have proof of the Booklet so I gave them a new one today along with the other document I served. Lots of witnesses to the service of the documents. They are trying to get social housing so the council are advising them as are CAB.

          I don't really want to wait another 2 months for Section 21, quite frankly I use this money from the rent and my small army pension to live on. Waiting 3 months or more for a section 21 with no rent being paid will probably put me on the streets.

          Comment


            #6
            Where did you get the form then, Brian? I know certain landlord organisations have their own form.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by JK0 View Post
              Where did you get the form then, Brian? I know certain landlord organisations have their own form.
              NLA National Landlords Association however if anyone reads this looking for the right form it's here FORM 6a Section 21 this form is interactive and is really simple less confusion about dates as well.

              Comment


                #8
                g 10, 11 are not Mandatory repo grounds and T can prob obtain sufficient funds to reduce arrears to <2 months by date of hearing.
                These days, unless you have sufficient funds to weather a 6 month void + T damage + Court costs, ask yourself 'should i be in the PPRS/rental business'?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by mariner View Post
                  g 10, 11 are not Mandatory repo grounds and T can prob obtain sufficient funds to reduce arrears to <2 months by date of hearing.
                  These days, unless you have sufficient funds to weather a 6 month void + T damage + Court costs, ask yourself 'should i be in the PPRS/rental business'?
                  I doubt the tenant can raise sufficient cash to pay of any of the debt, I happen to know them quite well. As I understand it ground 10,11 are discretionary grounds and are often used as a fall back option.

                  It's not really a business its my family home that was rented for a period when empty. Being in the North East the rental income is minimal £440.00 per month for a 3 bed semi, while the costs are the same as a London landlord relating to court fees etc.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Brian212 View Post

                    NLA National Landlords Association however if anyone reads this looking for the right form it's here FORM 6a Section 21 this form is interactive and is really simple less confusion about dates as well.
                    Then I would press on with the s21 you have. What is going to cost you less? Two more months unpaid rent or a possession order?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Nothing to stop you starting MCOL small-claim for rent (LBA 1st) to ensure tenant gets CCJ quicker (unless debt paid in full). Guidance on CaB website
                      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                      Comment


                        #12
                        If you are going to re-issue the s21 on form 6a, then make sure you send by first class post the day before it copies of GSC, EPC and H2R and get a free certificate of posting as evidence. Serve the s21 the same way. They only have to reduce the debt to £1 below the 2 month threshold for s8 to fail and any claim of disrepair doesn't have to be true just irrefutable by you at the time.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          The benefit of using s8 is that the tenant is pressured to reduce the arrears to below 2 months worth in order to avoid the mandatory ground.
                          And then they need to keep the arrears at that level, which essentially means the rent has to be paid.

                          If the tenant is evicted using s8 for not paying rent, they will find it difficult to get local authority emergency support and any future housing. So the tenant would prefer the use of s21 (which may be a useful bargaining point).
                          s8 also allows a judgement for the money owed at the same time, but there will always be a hearing and the tenant may try and complain of disrepair.
                          So a routine visit to check that everything's OK would be tactically useful.

                          And if the arrears are below 2 months, the court may still award a repossession, but suspend it.
                          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

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