am I an excluded occupier??

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    am I an excluded occupier??

    Am trying to find out my legal position, if any - here are my circumstances in brief - living in my fathers home in London, he lives in Italy, been here over 5 years, don't pay rent, been looking after the place for him, and also was in Italy looking after him and mother on and off. Recently brother managed to get an LPA, and has served me a notice to quit. He intends to sell the house in an attempt to avoid Inheritance Tax, against father's wishes. To cut a long story short, do I have any rights to stay here whatsoever - have been told I am an excluded occupier, although I live here by myself. Dad is in his 90s and has moderate dementia, so not sure there is much he can do to help me. Any ideas would be grateful. Ultimately I'm just trying to stop my brother from selling the house, and not so much concerned about being homeless as I know I can rent something. Many thanks.

    #2
    Shelter have a good question-answer calculator to work out what tenancy you have.
    "I'm afraid I didn't do enough background checks apart from checking her identity on Facebook" - ANON

    What I say is based on my own experience and research - Please don't take as gospel without first checking the gospel yourself.

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      #3
      Hi Wannadonnadoodah - I had a look at that - but i've had people tell me different things also, especially since I am family, and my father does not actually live in the house.

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        #4
        Does your dad has a UK passport? If not, residing in Italy (for at least the last 3y), you two brother will not pay any IHT in UK.

        If your father has a UK passport, then you will pay tax on at least UK estate.

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          #5
          Hi LondonSW, thanks for the reply, but the question was more about my rights to stay in the property, not to do with Inheritance Tax

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            #6
            The question appeared, to me, to be more about abuse of an LPA, which is really outside the scope of this forum.

            People with LPA's are expected to respect the known wishes of the their subject, and to consult with the subject to the maximum that their remaining mental capacity allows.

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              #7
              Well that's odd because i definitely asked "To cut a long story short, do I have any rights to stay here whatsoever" - im not asking for IHT information, was just giving background as to why im being evicted!!

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                #8
                You do not pay rent, so cannot be an AST & pres living there at invitation of owner - so no trespass.
                I would try to find out, from the Family Solic, how your father intends to leave the property in his Will.

                Families - who would have them?

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                  #9
                  Thanks Mariner - I agree i don't have a tenancy agreement, and yes been invited to live there, so no im not trespassing - the Notice to Quit says my licence is no longer appropriate - not sure what that means!

                  Father has left property half to me and half to my brother.

                  Thanks for your help

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                    #10
                    The Shelter website says that if you don't pay rent you are an excluded occupier.
                    What evidence do you have that they are wrong?

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by sdm038 View Post
                      Father has left property half to me and half to my brother.


                      In England, English citizens, If a house has been left to 2 people, then two people must agree to sell the house, and if you have not agreed, it cannot be sold without litigation. ( court ).

                      We assume the house has been Legally transferred into your two names, and if so, the Fathers agreement for you to stay there may now be void, as he no longer has ownership of the house, therefore can not dictate who can stay there.

                      You need a solicitor to answer your question, re- sale and accommodation.




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                        #12
                        You are possibly an excluded occupier using some tenancy checkers, but, in reality, you are simply a family member living in a property with the consent of the owner.
                        You are not primarily a tenant at all, you are the owner's son.
                        There doesn't seem to have been any attempt to create a tenancy or formalise the arrangement beyond that.

                        I believe that if the owner (or the person now responsible for making decisions for them) withdraws their consent to the arrangement, you would become a trespasser - occupying some where beyond the original consent.

                        Removing a trespasser is something your brother could do without court action (provided there's no breach of the peace).

                        The legal situation will partially depend on the nationality of your father, as others have indicated, as it will determine which legal system the power of attorney will operate under.

                        You need a professional family solicitor for advice - your brother's ability to evict you is not a property issue, it's a family law issue.
                        You might be able to argue that the brother is not acting in line with the LPA, as the sale may not be in your father's interest, for example.
                        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                          Removing a trespasser is something your brother could do without court action (provided there's no breach of the peace).
                          Not always true. It would depend on OP's current status.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post
                            Not always true. It would depend on OP's current status.
                            My conclusion was based on my view of the OP's status.

                            What do you think it is?
                            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

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                              #15
                              Many thanks for the reply jpkeates. It's interesting what you say about it being a family law issue. I hadn't considered that. I am in agreement with you that he does not have to go to the courts to get possession of property, and could change the locks at the end of the notice. It's a minefield really as my father still has mental capacity, and I still have his permission to be here, and clearly my brother is acting against our fathers wishes. Alas my father isn't able to act on his own anymore so couldn't revoke the LPA even if he wanted to.

                              Thanks for all the comments though.

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