Unclear tenancy agreement regarding periodic tenancy

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  • jpkeates
    replied
    What does she expect you to do, buy a very long pen?

    Leave a comment:


  • Angrydreamer
    replied
    No issue in signing it. It is just that I am abroad so can't sign it yet and she had a dramatic reaction to this.

    Offered to sign and send it when I return home.

    Her reaction just surprised me so was worried had missed something of legal importance.

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    She can demand it, but there is nothing (realistic) that anyone can do to make you.

    On the other hand, it's not really an issue to sign it is it?

    Leave a comment:


  • Angrydreamer
    replied
    Bit of a follow up. LL moaning because we haven't signed the new inventory (she has replaced the carpet in one of the rooms due to the previous tenants not reporting a moth infestation and the carpet getting damaged) We aren't renewing the AST and will be leaving next month so will sign one when we check out. So I don't see the point?

    Would I be wrong not to sign it? I don't see the point. Can she demand it?

    Leave a comment:


  • Angrydreamer
    replied
    This is now so much clearer. Thank you everyone for all you help and advice!

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    There is no contractual periodic tenancy based on the wording you have quoted.
    The wording of 1.6.2 is terrible - 1.6.1 defines the "Term" and then 1.6.2 tries to redefine it as something that contradicts that definition.
    2.5.2 is not valid, as the Housing Act (1988) defines the notice period necessary (one month ending at the end of a rental period) and doesn't allow any variation in a tenancy agreement to override that.

    As above, while you are not actually able to give valid notice in the fixed term, most people aren't aware of this, so I'd give notice now for the date you suggest.

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  • Angrydreamer
    replied
    I really appreciate all your help. I slept so badly last night that I swear I dreamt about periodic tenancies!

    So to clarify if I pursue the 1 month notice I need to provide the official notice on or after the 21/09/2017 as the last day of the AST is 20/09/2017? So I could send it 'signed for next day delivery' on 20/09/2017? And then vacate the flat before 20/10/2017.

    I had a chat with a legal advisor (property law) that we have access to through work and he advised that as the contract is so vague regarding a periodic tenancy the 2 month notice request cannot be enforced. The landlord has to specifically state the terms of a periodic tenancy to be contractual.

    They also advised that worse case scenario is that the LL then challenges the deposit but as this is in the deposit scheme they would have to prove that the contract is clear in regards to a periodic tenancy. Which it isn't.

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  • KTC
    replied
    That appears to be a standard fixed term of 6 months only from 21 March to 20 September as it does not say anything about it continuining on a month/period by month/period basis after that.

    2.5.1 if enforcable would require you to give 2 months notices ending on any date while the fixed term is ongoing. Based on standard advice about unfair clause and others, it is highly unlikely to be enforcable though. Similarly for 2.5.2. So, you can leave on or by 20 September on the basis of the tenancy then ending by effluxion of time.

    You cannot give valid notice to quit a SPT before the SPT start, and any notice to quit must end on the last or first day of a period and be of at least one complete period.

    Leave a comment:


  • AndrewDod
    replied
    I can't see it is a Contractual PT. The word "contractual" as cited by OP simply refers to the fact that a further fixed period AST might be signed -- or at least that is what I would take it to mean (and attempts for some unknown and useless purpose to bind the terms together - e.g. for purposes of Guarantor)

    Leave a comment:


  • Kape65
    replied
    2.5.1 - This is telling you to give 2 months notice to end the fixed term when in reality you don't need to give any.
    2.5.2 - This is telling you that you must do the same IF the tenancy is periodic, again only 1 month is necessary for a SPT.

    I would give notice NOW to end on 15th October.

    Leave a comment:


  • Angrydreamer
    replied
    I have read somewhere that for it to be contractual periodic the new "term" needs to be clearly stated. As in after the AST ends it should state it then roles on to a month to month periodic tenancy. But I have no idea if this is the actually true.

    This is all the paragraphs that refer to periodic tenancy:


    1.6.1 The Term shall be for a definite period of 6 months from and including 21st March 2017 to and including 20th September 2017. Please see paragraph 2.5 as it contains important information about what you must do to end your tenancy.
    1.6.2 The "term" is to include any extension or continuation of the fixed term or a statutory or contractual periodic tenancy


    2.5
    2.5.1 If the tenant intends to vacate at the end of the fixed term, or any later date, he agrees to give the landlord at least 2 months prior notice in warning.
    2.5.2 While the tenancy is periodic the two months written notice must expire the day before a rent is due.

    Leave a comment:


  • StuartH
    replied
    There must be more in the tenancy agreement than you have quoted as you say it ends on 20-Sep. What wording defines the term?

    Leave a comment:


  • jjlandlord
    replied
    Originally posted by mariner View Post
    I disagree. You have a CPT requiring min 2 month Notice.
    Nothing suggests this in what OP quoted.

    Leave a comment:


  • JK0
    replied
    Just noticed it is 15th October you want to move. Then give a month's notice on 20th Sept, surely?

    Leave a comment:


  • Angrydreamer
    replied
    Thank you for your replies.

    I have checked the tenancy agreement again and again but I can't find anything stating what happens after the AST ends. Doesn't there need to be something about this in the agreement for it to be contractual? As in once the AST is over that the tendency automatically becomes a periodic tendency if the ATS is not renewed?

    All I have found are the sentences above and they are vague.

    Leave a comment:

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