TT not leaving

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  • TT not leaving

    A friend of mine (LL) rents his property through an agent and has asked them to get the tenant out as he's coming back to live in it. The agent served a S21 notice which is due to expire soon (we'll check, but for the purposes of this post assume that everything has been served correctly and the notice is valid).

    The tenant has indicated that he probably won't be leaving on the expiration of the notice as he can't find anywhere to go (property like this is scarce in the town).

    LL has hit the roof as he had everything planned to come back a few days after he leaves (even though I advised him against making such plans).

    TT has paid another months' rent (notice falls halfway through a rental period) but LL has been told by another friend that he shouldn't be accepting rent from him now if he's going to go to court to evict. Is that right?

    LL also wants to try to penalise TT for not leaving, talking about TT paying for court costs (is this feasible?) and saying he'll increase the rent by as much as possible until he gets possession (is this doable, considering a notice has been served?)

    I've told him that, as far as I know, the tenant isn't doing anything wrong legally by not leaving, but I'm not an expert by any stretch.

  • #2
    The landlord can carry on accepting rent, which is due until the tenancy ends.

    The tenant has every right to stay, as the landlord's notice doesn't actually end the tenancy. To bring the tenancy to an end, the landlord will need to go to court. If the landlord is successful, the tenant will be told to pay the landlord's costs.

    The landlord can increase the rent if the tenancy is periodic using a section 13 notice. He will have to give notice, and the tenant is able to appeal, particularly if the proposed rent is higher than market value.

    I would definitely not assume the notice is valid, they're very difficult yo get right. Here's a checklist https://markprichard.co.uk/content/d...ecker-tool.pdf

    The landlord's expectations are misguided, and it's going to take a number of months to repossess.
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
      If the landlord is successful, the tenant will be told to pay the landlord's costs.
      Ok, thanks. This seems to imply that the tenant is in the wrong by not leaving then.

      The notice might as well say, "you don't have to leave when this notice expires, but you'll have a large legal bill if you don't."

      Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
      The landlord can increase the rent if the tenancy is periodic using a section 13 notice. He will have to give notice, and the tenant is able to appeal, particularly if the proposed rent is higher than market value.
      Thanks again.

      Is this advisable though? There's no implication or suggestion of offering a new tenancy by doing so while under notice?

      Comment


      • #4
        The current tenancy continues until the landlord has recovered possession (or the tenant serves notice) so there's no danger of a new one coming into being accidentally .

        The tenant is awarded costs if they lose, which is pretty standard in legal cases. If the landlord loses the case, the costs remain theirs.
        Many s21 hearings are lost by landlords.

        Originally posted by johnson13 View Post
        The notice might as well say, "you don't have to leave when this notice expires, but you'll have a large legal bill if you don't."
        The current notice pretty much does say that - "You are required to leave the below address after [ ]. If you do not leave, your landlord may apply to the court for an order under section 21(1) or (4) of the Housing Act 1988 requiring you to give up possession.
        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

        Comment


        • #5
          The tenant may be 'morally' in the wrong, but is legally in the right. They have no outright legal obligation to leave at the end of the tenancy agreement, which can only be truly ended by the court. In essence, the court are the 'adjudicators' of the contract and decide whether to enforce it or not.
          Your friend has made a grave error of judgement in assuming they can move back into the property, very foolish. Until the tenant has left, it's not their home to move into, it's the tenants. That's like going to a restaurant, waiting until a diner has nipped to the loo, then sitting down and having their meal because you wanted that table. You simply can't work that way.
          They are entitled to receive rent for the period the tenant is there, and they may well be entitled to the costs incurred in removing the tenant. However, it's not a penalty, or fine, against the tenant, simply an acknowledgement of responsibility for additional costs.
          I may be a housing professional but my views, thoughts, opinions, advice, criticisms or otherwise on this board are mine and are not representative of my company, colleagues, managers. I am here as an independent human being who simply wants to learn new stuff, share ideas and interact with like minded people.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for the replies.

            LL has spoken to a solicitor who suggested that he shouldn't have accepted rent and recommended that he go back to the TT and say it's accepted as Mesne Profits.

            Seems a bit unnecessary as jpkeates said that the tenancy continues and rent is due.

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, I'm not a solicitor, so I'm not really in a position to argue with someone who does it for a living.

              But, unless the situation isn't actually as described in the first post, that's not very helpful advice.

              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

              Comment


              • #8
                LL lives abroad and had a brief phone consultation with a solicitor here locally to prepare for getting the ball rolling when the notice expires (assuming the TT is still there, which is likely).

                He asked me for an opinion as I have a few BTLs but I'm no expert.

                Maybe he should speak to a different solicitor.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by johnson13 View Post
                  Maybe he should speak to a different solicitor.
                  Not 'maybe'. This solicitor obviously has no experience or knowledge about ASTs so I don't see how he could help with proceedings.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Or the landlord didn't describe the situation accurately.
                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      He should post here himself, Chinese whispers are not advisable.
                      If he returns, he will have to find somewhere else to live until Bailiffs legally obtain possession.
                      I don't suppose he included s8 g1 in the orig AST for obtaining repo.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'd be checking the Section 21 notice if it expires half way through a rental period!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kape65 View Post
                          I'd be checking the Section 21 notice if it expires half way through a rental period!
                          Why do you say that?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Purely because if it's been served during the fixed term as I imagine it has, it would be more likely to be dated incorrectly. I'm not saying it's wrong just that I would take a good look at it. Maybe it's because I wouldn't trust anyone but myself to serve notices.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Please complete & paste https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/fo...ll-new-posters

                              Comment

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