Remove a cohabiting tenant from a joint tenancy application? Can it be done?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Remove a cohabiting tenant from a joint tenancy application? Can it be done?

    Q1 – Where is the rented property located - England

    Q2 – What type of Tenancy Agreement (TA) is this - AST with two cohabitants listed

    Q3 – What date did current TA start dd/mm/yy? 02/12/15

    Q4 – How long was initial fixed term (6/12/24 months / other)? 6 months now periodic, no other AST offered

    Q5 – Does the TA state that rent is due weekly? / 4-weekly? / per calendar month (if so, on what same date each month)? 1st of every month (they started on the 2nd Dec. but rental payment is certainly listed as 1st of January and 1st every month on wards)

    Q6 – Did the TA require a tenant damage deposit to be paid? If so, on what date was this paid (dd/mm/yy)? £500 02/12/15

    Q7 – If your query relates to a notice for repossession from the landlord (a Section 8 or Section 21 notice) or a tenants's notice to quit to the landlord, please provide the exact date the notice was sent/received (dd/mm/yy). no notice sent

    Q8 – Does the landlord live in the same property as the tenant? NO




    Good afternoon all,

    Can I force one person on a tenancy agreement (cohabiting couple) to leave the property while also leaving the other in place? Is this possible?

    The back ground, jointly signed 6 month AST now into periodic AND guarantor in place for application. Rental mostly paid direct from council to landlord with a small top up, rent is up to date.

    Can it be done and how simple is it to do without wrecking the AST and guarantor attachment? The monies would not be altered as the housing benefit is in the tenants name that wishes to stay on.

    Also to enquire ref. section 21... previously I noted section 21 was a/b which I believe was to do with AST date; is that still the same? I believe the section 21 can be found on the following link under form 6a: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/assured-...-forms#form-6a

    I understand it's two clear months notice, can I please get guidance on the correct dates as it has been a while since I last used one, a pointer to another page would also be grateful. Rental payment date is the 1st of every month, for example if I give notice tomorrow being 16th August 2017 the earliest with two clear months is 31st October 2017. Is that correct?

    On the section 21 form the date field reads: "
    You are required to leave the below address after [ ]" given the above example dates is the 31st October 2017 correct?

    Many thanks.





  • #2
    No. Evict all, 1 day gap, new tenancy for sole occupation.

    You'd be better off the "good" one getting an injunction against other being there, then "bad" one still liable for rent.
    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

    Comment


    • #3
      There is only one tenant (A+B are a unity). You would need an entirely new agreement if you wish only A. Your guarantee would definitely be invalid.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you both.


        Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
        No. Evict all, 1 day gap, new tenancy for sole occupation.

        You'd be better off the "good" one getting an injunction against other being there, then "bad" one still liable for rent.
        How would that work in reality? Evict all, wait for them to leave and then allow the good tenant back in, doesn't seem doable unless I'm missing the point and the solution. Evict all, wait for bad tenant to leave and start new AST the following day for good tenant while adding the guarantor back in.

        Possibly adds a whole lot of scope for further problems. Do say if I've missed the point on this please.

        I think the injunction between tenants is a good idea if that's how strongly tenant A feels towards B but I guess that's a matter for them.


        Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post
        There is only one tenant (A+B are a unity). You would need an entirely new agreement if you wish only A. Your guarantee would definitely be invalid.
        I think it further clarifies that in really it isn't possible with A+B being one and the same.


        The short term solution/conclusion would be the good tenant asks the bad tenant to leave of his own accord. Then once confirmed of the case issue a new AST building in the same terms and guarantor as before.

        Do I need to issue paperwork again if one tenant is scratched off the tenancy?

        Lastly the section 21 detail, is there a referral link to a page to confirm I've got the correct procedure?

        Appreciated all.


        Comment


        • #5
          There is only one tenant, who is both of the people.
          Once you understand that, you'll see why what has been proposed is being suggested.

          You can't deal with the two individuals as individuals until you've ended the joint tenancy.

          If the couple are the one's who want to end the joint tenancy because they're splitting up, on of them should serve you notice.
          Minimum of a month, ending on 1st of a month.
          That ends the tenancy and the one who's moving out can move out and you can start a new agreement with the remaining tenant.
          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


          • #6
            if you end the original tenancy, you have to give the deposit back, but that takes about 10 days after the end of tenancy.

            When you make a new tenancy, of course you need a deposit, just like you did on 1st of January, but tenant probably wont have the deposit for new tenancy.
            And the original deposit will be given back to the tenant who paid it, and not back to you.
            So be careful, it just may go back to the one you get rid of, so find out.

            I think also, you need a new guarantor agreement, as the initial agreement was for two people whose tenancy agreement has now finished, and no longer exists ( what would a judge say ? )

            Others may throw some light on above thoughts, to quantify or dismiss.

            EDIT...........
            Don't assume a tenant will be able to afford an injunction !

            Comment


            • #7
              I agree with Ram. My previous neighbour could not afford the injunction which was over 100 pound a month even on divided payments.

              As others have said, you can't just scratch off one person. You don't have singular tenants they are one of the same and you must evict them together.

              Of course your then free to give a new agreement to whoever you please.

              The tenants really need to sort themselves out, but just to warn you one or the other can apply to court to prevent the other serving notice. Then you really are stuck.

              I'd be asking the tenant your happy to remain to serve notice ASAP before the other seeks legal advice

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Wright76 View Post
                I but just to warn you one or the other can apply to court to prevent the other serving notice. Then you really are stuck.
                I think it's a periodic tenancy. So while one might get an injunction to prevent the other from being there (nothing to do with the landlord really), I don't think it likely that the injunction could be to prevent the serving of notice by one party on a continuing periodic tenancy. Can't see that happening.

                Comment


                • #9
                  This isn't the link I was looking for but it does help. In any breakdown the first advice CAB give it to obtain an order preventing notice being given. It's specific to periodic tenancies since valid notice cannot be served by only one during the term

                  https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/fa...-you-separate/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Shelter say the process is " complicated", I'd say that's a tad of an understatement - a court order that compels one half of a failed relationship to remain liable for the liabilities of the other including not being able to end them.
                    I can see situations where that might be essential, but I can't imagine it's normal or routine.
                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks all

                      From this I've taken on board that it's one tenancy agreement and not two single individuals

                      The deposit would most likely be an issue, it would return to the correct tenant but I doubt they could settle the new one prior

                      The potential issues I can see from issuing a section 21 OR the tenant serving notice (to try and keep on the good tenant/guarantor)
                      1 - The bad tenant may not leave
                      2 - The return of the deposit would need to assessed just like an end of tenancy, therefore deductions taken
                      3 - Could potentially open me up to abuse of signing (even thought I get on well with tenant/guarantor)
                      4 - Good tenant would still effectively be in the property with belongings - unsure how this would look in a court room should things go south?


                      Can I legally serve a section 21 to the tenants AND then on the same day issue a new tenancy agreement to just the good tenant and set it back up with guarantor/deposit etc? I suspect that I need to let the section 21 lapse and get signing done the following day? Thoughts please?


                      I agree with a comment that they really need to sort themselves out; the best option would be internal resolution for the time being

                      Do say if I've missed a trick here!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Your s21 notice doesn't end the tenancy, so any notice you serve is just that.
                        A demand for the return of the property.

                        So you're not in a position to offer the remaining tenant a new tenancy agreement, as the old one continues (with the joint occupants both liable for rent etc).
                        You can assure the favoured tenant of your intent, but you don't have to.

                        If they don't sort themselves out and leave, you will be evicting both of them through a court and they'll be liable for the legal costs.
                        And make sure you get the notice right, they're very fiddly.

                        The deposit isn't your problem, it will be "returned" by whoever's protecting it, so they'll have to sort it out.

                        Whatever you do after any eviction is up to you.
                        If they have any sense, the tenants will surrender the tenancy rather than being evicted.
                        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thank you jpkeates and all on this thread, appreciate all your inputs on this one.

                          It's all a bit fiddly this trying to keep one of the tenants on while not exposing yourself to potential risks and problems. It seems to me that should they relinquish the tenancy or I set a section 21 date for the property to be returned then realistically I can't offer new terms (AST) to the good tenant until the property is indeed returned OR the bad tenant moves on as it will still look like the initial agreement is still in place with 1/2 of the applicants still residing in the property i.e. the good tenant.

                          Does anyone know the legal distinction for a section 21 certainly using the above as analogy should the good tenant still reside? That to me potentially does not suffice as 1/2 of the original AST is still in place with the good tenant still residing.

                          Is a section 21 only deemed fulfilled when it's complete vacant hand back to the landlord?

                          I hope for my sake I'm not over complicating things here.

                          It's from this the best option is for them to sort themselves out.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The two tenants need to sort themselves out.
                            Once they have decided who's leaving and when, you do a complete check out with the two of them on that last day, they sign a deed of surrender and whoever's leaving leaves.
                            The remaining tenant signs a new tenancy agreement and you carry on.

                            The only complication is the deposit which the tenant needs to sort out between themselves.

                            The tenants need to sort out what they want to do, and you are simply doing the admin to support it.
                            You're not driving things, the tenant have to sort themselves out.
                            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              jpkeates,

                              Appreciate the run through and overview on this, I hadn't thought about a deed of surrender document.

                              Thank you and also to those previously posted.

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X