NTQ during fixed term?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
    A promissory estoppel claim is essentially always available (one of the reasons I hated the whole subject).
    So that's not really a fair question.
    Really? Where's the unequivocal promise?

    Comment


    • #62
      "You are required to leave the below address after xx/xx/xxxx." is unequivocal.
      Followed by the threat of legal action if "you" don't.
      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
        "You are required to leave the below address after xx/xx/xxxx." is unequivocal.
        Followed by the threat of legal action if "you" don't.
        This is not a promise. Whether this is a legal 'requirement' is also arguable.

        Could be focus instead of astroturfing?

        Comment


        • #64
          Can you please direct me to a law that says a section 21 is only a passport to court action?. On behalf of the landlord I agree that it is. In the fact he can take no action until ordered by the court.

          Can you provide anything in law that you can direct someone to do something and then refuse to accept it when they do?. Especially given a section 21 cannot be revoked?

          If your reasoning were true, tenants would not be given a notice period, they would be given a notice advising you were going to court. Else the section 21 would state "unless you provide notice by....the landlord will apply to court. You cannot direct someone to do something and then penalise or refuse to accept it when they do. It's common sense and you wouldnt stand a chance in court.

          You keep referring back to precautionary notices like it was acceptable and fair. The legislation aims to prevent landlords doing that and for tenants to feel secure. Once you finally agree this legislation does what it is intended to do, will you still issue a precautionary section 21 knowing it may cost you almost a full months rent? I thought not.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post

            You made a claim. You tell us.



            It was claimed that a tenant may freely leave whenever he pleases once he has received a s.21notice. If that was indeed the case you can imagine the mess with all those precautionary notices.



            It was already the case that a section 21 notice could expire mid-period. Even before Spencer v. Taylor.



            Yet that's exactly what the law says.
            Iv searched and searched and can find no evidence of your claim "yes that's exactly what the law says" with reference to a section 21 being a passport to court.

            Please direct me to where the law states this?

            As far as I can find, the law only provides instructions for a landlord when a tenant does not leave as they have been asked to do. I can find no explanation or legal definition that it is simply a passport to court?

            I also think the clue is in the title. Section 21-notice to quit

            Comment


            • #66
              What title?
              Section 21 isn't titled that, and Form 6a doesn't have that title either.
              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

              Comment


              • #67
                Really? I understood that it was commonly referred to as a notice to quit or notice requiring possession - in and out of legal circles - a quick Google certainly gives that impression.

                Or is this still the Nit Picking Pendantry Game? If so, I think I may have misplaced the rules, sorry

                Comment


                • #68
                  It's "Pedantry"


                  I'm so sorry, I just couldn't help myself.
                  I'll get my coat...
                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Ooops!

                    But my point stands... nit picking over the minutia won't help the OP work through their problem.

                    Out in the real/simple world s21 is a notice to quit/notice requiring possession. How the T chooses to respond upon receipt dictates whether or not a court needs to be involved.

                    Now... I shall continue to make necklaces....

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Anyone writing that a s.21 notice is a 'notice to quit' does not know what a notice to quit is and also does not know what a s.21 notice is. It's a sure indication that it's best to stop reading further.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Hi JayJay. I was missing you

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Notice to Quit can be used in tenancies which fall outside the Housing Act (Usually known as common law tenancies). Examples includes
                          1) Tenant not using the property as 'principle home
                          2) Tenant is not an indivudual (eg a company)
                          3) Rent is greater than £100,000 per annum.

                          Under Section 5 of the HA
                          5Security of tenure.

                          [F1(1)An assured tenancy cannot be brought to an end by the landlord except by—

                          (a)obtaining—

                          (i)an order of the court for possession of the dwelling-house under section 7 or 21, and

                          (ii)the execution of the order,

                          (b)obtaining an order of the court under section 6A (demotion order), F2...

                          (c)in the case of a fixed term tenancy which contains power for the landlord to determine the tenancy in certain circumstances, by the exercise of that power[F3, or

                          (d)in the case of an assured tenancy—

                          (i)which is a residential tenancy agreement within the meaning of Chapter 1 of Part 3 of the Immigration Act 2014, and

                          (ii)in relation to which the condition in section 33D(2) of that Act is met,

                          giving a notice in accordance with that section,]

                          and, accordingly, the service by the landlord of a notice to quit is of no effect in relation to a periodic assured tenancy.

                          (1A)Where an order of the court for possession of the dwelling-house is obtained, the tenancy ends when the order is executed.


                          Thus upon expiry of a Section 21, if the tenant still remains in occupation the tenancy still continues. The tenancy only ends upon which the order for possession is executed (i.e by county court bailiffs/ HCEO).

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            For God's sake I'm well aware of what an actual notice to quit is. I'm also well aware that a section 21 is a direction/notice/request/instruction to leave, whatever you want to call it.

                            It certainly isn't defined in law as a passport to court only, as is claimed, and the silence in directing me otherwise is deafening

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by fullhouse50 View Post
                              Notice to Quit can be used in tenancies which fall outside the Housing Act (Usually known as common law tenancies). Examples includes
                              1) Tenant not using the property as 'principle home
                              2) Tenant is not an indivudual (eg a company)
                              3) Rent is greater than £100,000 per annum.

                              Under Section 5 of the HA
                              5Security of tenure.

                              [F1(1)An assured tenancy cannot be brought to an end by the landlord except by—

                              (a)obtaining—

                              (i)an order of the court for possession of the dwelling-house under section 7 or 21, and

                              (ii)the execution of the order,

                              (b)obtaining an order of the court under section 6A (demotion order), F2...

                              (c)in the case of a fixed term tenancy which contains power for the landlord to determine the tenancy in certain circumstances, by the exercise of that power[F3, or

                              (d)in the case of an assured tenancy—

                              (i)which is a residential tenancy agreement within the meaning of Chapter 1 of Part 3 of the Immigration Act 2014, and

                              (ii)in relation to which the condition in section 33D(2) of that Act is met,

                              giving a notice in accordance with that section,]

                              and, accordingly, the service by the landlord of a notice to quit is of no effect in relation to a periodic assured tenancy.

                              (1A)Where an order of the court for possession of the dwelling-house is obtained, the tenancy ends when the order is executed.


                              Thus upon expiry of a Section 21, if the tenant still remains in occupation the tenancy still continues. The tenancy only ends upon which the order for possession is executed (i.e by county court bailiffs/ HCEO).
                              All the above confirms is that a landlord cannot end the tenancy. It gives no advice to the tenant leaving. Although "IF the tenant remains in occupation, the tenancy continues" infers if they don't remain in occupation it doesn't. Which pretty much ends the argument I think

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                The last paragraph of fulhouse50's comment is not part of the statute he quoted.

                                Comment

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