Conversion Dwelling house in to 3 Flats / Lawful Certificate

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Conversion Dwelling house in to 3 Flats / Lawful Certificate

    Hi guys,
    3 year ago I bought and converted a Dwelling house in to 3 Self Contained Units/Flats.( all the flats has been rented since the time )
    Whats is the best way to proof to the council next year the conversion has been done for more than 4 years? ( the house have only 1 electricity/gas meter also only one council tax )
    I spook with some people and they are saying the council won't accepting only tenancy agreement as a proof.

    I tried to register the flats with royal mail but they told me if no council tax they cant do nothing.

    So anyone had this situation in the pass? and how you manage to get away on this situation?

    HELP ME PLS

    Regards
    Paulo

    #2
    I thought change of use was 10 years? Confused manatee
    Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

    Comment


      #3
      After conversion to separate flats the use is lawful after 4 years, because no enforcement action can then be taken by the local planning authority.

      To claim that the development is lawful by making an application for a Lawful Development certificate after the four yeras has passed, the evidence provided has to satisfy the civil legal standard of "on the balance of probability"

      You need to provide statements of truth signed by all those persons able to confirm that they had knowledge of when the flat conversion was completed. That will include any tenants who were in the flats during that four year period, as well as any builders you employed who can confirm when they worked on the flats.
      You too need to make a statement of truth

      Any signed tenancy agreements showing when different people occupied each flat would also be evidence of use as separate flats, so they can be provided.

      The burden of proof is down to you, so anything that shows use as separate flat dwellings rather than one single house dwelling needs to be provided.

      Comment


        #4
        Hi Pilman,
        Thanks for the advise.
        Let me know if anyone know more ways to proof.

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks Pilman - confused manatee!
          Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by islandgirl View Post
            I thought change of use was 10 years? Confused manatee
            See: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...rtificates.pdf
            It says:

            "Time limits
            The Planning and Compensation Act 1991 introduced rolling time limits within which local planning authorities can take planning enforcement action against breaches of planning control. The time limits are:
            • four years for building, engineering, mining or other operations in, on, over or under land, without planning permission. This development becomes immune from enforcement action four years after the operations are substantially completed
            four years for the change of use of a building, or part of a building, to use as a single dwelling house. Enforcement action can no longer be taken once the unauthorised use has continued for four years without any enforcement action being taken
            10 years for all other development. The 10 year period runs from the date the breach of planning control was committed


            So in fact, I would say change of use from a single house to three homes would indeed count for 10 years?


            Originally posted by pcsjpa View Post
            Let me know if anyone know more ways to proof.
            If you did the project properly, you will have had to go through Building Control - I assume you did so? At the conclusion they would have signed it off and given you a certificate/letter to show that all was tickety-boo; that constitutes your definitive proof. It will be on file at the council even if you've lost it.

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks Eric - I was involved in a change of use project that had a 10 year requirement but was not a dwelling house, hence my confusion. I think I will go back to munching my lettuce.
              Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Ericthelobster View Post
                See: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upl...rtificates.pdf
                It says:

                "Time limits
                The Planning and Compensation Act 1991 introduced rolling time limits within which local planning authorities can take planning enforcement action against breaches of planning control. The time limits are:
                • four years for building, engineering, mining or other operations in, on, over or under land, without planning permission. This development becomes immune from enforcement action four years after the operations are substantially completed
                four years for the change of use of a building, or part of a building, to use as a single dwelling house. Enforcement action can no longer be taken once the unauthorised use has continued for four years without any enforcement action being taken
                10 years for all other development. The 10 year period runs from the date the breach of planning control was committed


                So in fact, I would say change of use from a single house to three homes would indeed count for 10 years?


                If you did the project properly, you will have had to go through Building Control - I assume you did so? At the conclusion they would have signed it off and given you a certificate/letter to show that all was tickety-boo; that constitutes your definitive proof. It will be on file at the council even if you've lost it.
                "or part of a building" would surely suggest 4 years.

                Comment


                  #9
                  A flat once converted is a single dwelling that is separate from any other flat within what was originally a single dwellinghouse.
                  That is why the four year rule applies when two dwellings are created in what was originally a single dwelling.

                  This quote is from a Gov.uk site:
                  In recent years (since 2001) a dwelling is defined (in line with the 2001 Census definition) as a self-contained unit of accommodation. Self-containment is where all the rooms (including kitchen, bathroom and toilet) in a household’s accommodation are behind a single door which only that household can use. Non-self contained household spaces at the same address should be counted together as a single dwelling. Therefore a dwelling can consist of one self-contained household space or two or more non-self-contained household spaces at the same address.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Hi, I'm in a similar situation.

                    I've owned 3 converted flats for 5 years.

                    I've found out they don't have planning permission

                    I've only got 1 electric meter, 1 gas meter & one council tax for all the flats.

                    The tenants rent is inclusive of all bills.

                    So I know need to prove the flats were split & have been lived in for over 4 years.

                    This is what I have in terms of proof:

                    *Tenancy agreement

                    *wage slips

                    *bank statements

                    *phone bills

                    *car insurance docs

                    *gas & electric appliance yearly certificates

                    If a tenant moved in on Jan 1st 2010 to Jan 1st 2011....the documents above are dated from the beginning of the tenancy & until they moved out.

                    I think this proves the conversion was done x amount of years ago.

                    Sorry for hijacking your thread, but I thought it's a very similar situation to mine & most tenants have these documents available.

                    Good luck

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Bach View Post
                      I've only got 1 electric meter, 1 gas meter & one council tax for all the flats.
                      The tenants rent is inclusive of all bills.
                      So I know need to prove the flats were split & have been lived in for over 4 years.
                      This is what I have in terms of proof:

                      [...]

                      I think this proves the conversion was done x amount of years ago.
                      But it also proves conclusively to the council that you should have been paying 3 lots of council tax on the properties since they were converted...

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I'd happily accept paying back dated council tax on all three flats.

                        Let's be honest, you've most probably doubled the original value of the original house by converting it into flats.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Whilst theoretically possible to double the value, realising it would involve;

                          a. finding a 'rube' who'll pay cash, not do due dilligence and take on a box of frogs that is a converted building with no legal documentation to demonstrate it's safe / meets minimum building standards.

                          b. meeting the cost of sorting out the missing paperwork and also preparing long leases (if the flats are to be sold off individually).

                          At the moment it could be argued that the property is worthless.
                          There is always scope for misinterpretation.

                          If my posts can be interpreted in two ways, one that makes you feel angry and one that doesn't, I meant the latter.

                          Everyday is an opportunity to learn something new.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by mk1fan View Post
                            a box of frogs that is a converted building with no legal documentation to demonstrate it's safe / meets minimum building standards
                            Well yes, except that the discussion here's all about planning permission, which has nothing to do with safety and building regs. If the conversion hasn't been done under the auspices of Building Control (and I do concur that people who don't trouble themselves over the niceties of planning permission are likely to have a similar attitude to building regs - OP??) then this box of frogs is a whole different can of worms...

                            Comment


                              #15
                              The conversion may well comply with building regs (or need only minor adjustments). It will be worth the investment once cert of lawfulness is obtained. This is one "worthless" property I would not mind owning!
                              Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X