Who is responsible for addtional scaffolding costs?

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    Who is responsible for addtional scaffolding costs?

    Hi, The sequence of events if important can be determined but about 4 years ago the freeholder agreed to allow me to convert the basement under my ground floor flat for an agreed price. This included creation of lightwell. At around the same time F/h started tendering for external repair and redecoration works.

    The basement works started in 2014 and completed a year later. Once completed the external works were about to commence when the f/h surveyors realised that the lightwell space required additional scaffolding, which the contractor were demanding an additional £675 on top of the contract price, as they had not quoted for this.

    The external works are to be equally shared between 4 leaseholders.

    My question is who is responsible for this extra cost as the f/h is saying my basement works are responsible for the additional costs.

    As I had never agreed to pay for the extra scaffolding cost and as there is no provision within the lease to charge me individually, as far as I can tell, for such expenditure the f/h seems unwilling to budge on the issue.

    #2
    Hmm. If you had put up a conservatory, that necessitated scaffolding to clean windows in flats above, would you not be responsible for the cost of that?

    Then I think you are also responsible for the extra cost of your light well scaffolding.

    Comment


      #3
      JKO you seem to concur with the f/h surveyors but I would aruge my responsibilities are governed by whats in the lease and nothing else..

      Comment


        #4
        I do concur. If the place was still as described in the lease we wouldn't be having this conversation. You changed it, therefore you are responsible for extra costs as a result of those changes.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by JK0 View Post
          I do concur. If the place was still as described in the lease we wouldn't be having this conversation. You changed it, therefore you are responsible for extra costs as a result of those changes.
          So JKO.. continuing this logic are you saying I would be responsible for the extra scaffolding in year 2024, 2034, in perpetuity etc? Probably all the leaseholders will have forgotten by then

          And the insurance, I expect I would be responsible for the additional premium for that also.

          I would prefer to hear that its the lease / DoV that governs my obligations and responsibilities....anyone?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Tony50 View Post
            So JKO.. continuing this logic are you saying I would be responsible for the extra scaffolding in year 2024, 2034, in perpetuity etc? Probably all the leaseholders will have forgotten by then

            And the insurance, I expect I would be responsible for the additional premium for that also.

            I would prefer to hear that its the lease / DoV that governs my obligations and responsibilities....anyone?
            What DoV is that then? Did you agree to pay for a higher proportion of the service charge to reflect that you have a bigger flat?

            Failing that, all the other lessees agreed to pay their portion of the maintenance of the original building. That you have enlarged your share, should not mean they pay extra, should it?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by JK0 View Post
              What DoV is that then? Did you agree to pay for a higher proportion of the service charge to reflect that you have a bigger flat?
              A deed of variation was the legal document governing the transfer of ownership/creation of the basement space. Can't think of many who would voluntarily agree to your suggestion!

              Originally posted by JK0 View Post
              Failing that, all the other lessees agreed to pay their portion of the maintenance of the original building. That you have enlarged your share, should not mean they pay extra, should it?
              JKO I do understand your point but the leases are clear on what each lessee has to pay. The other leaseholders in the property had the opportunity to petition the f/h on whatever matters they wanted concerning the basement works.

              Second thoughts... this question should be directed at the freeholder to explain himself/herself, not myself!

              Comment


                #8
                Well, I wouldn't dig your heels in about this scaffolding Tony.

                If the freeholder is thwarted in this, I suspect he'll make an application to the FTT to have the maintenance percentages amended. Then you'll pay more for everything.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by JK0 View Post
                  Well, I wouldn't dig your heels in about this scaffolding Tony.

                  If the freeholder is thwarted in this, I suspect he'll make an application to the FTT to have the maintenance percentages amended. Then you'll pay more for everything.
                  I doubt very much FTT can change what proportions are in the lease. They are there to read the leases as they see them and determine reasonableness of service charges.

                  Cant really see why f/h would do anything frankly when they are not impacted at all. They're either lazy or pacifying another leaseholder or something else

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You have a 50/50 chance in wining your argument.

                    The same would apply if you built a conservatory requiring extensive scaffolding to go up, over, and a platform over the conservatory.
                    However, as the freeholder agreed your plans, they should now allow for the extra scaffolding in the service charges.
                    But. if I lived there, I as a leaseholder would complain about the extra £ 675 being put on the service charges, and would demand an explanation as to why you refuse to pay this extra, and I would go to the F.T.T. to get a determination.

                    Like I said, a 50/50 chance of winning your argument.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by ram View Post
                      You have a 50/50 chance in wining your argument.

                      The same would apply if you built a conservatory requiring extensive scaffolding to go up, over, and a platform over the conservatory.
                      However, as the freeholder agreed your plans, they should now allow for the extra scaffolding in the service charges.
                      But. if I lived there, I as a leaseholder would complain about the extra £ 675 being put on the service charges, and would demand an explanation as to why you refuse to pay this extra, and I would go to the F.T.T. to get a determination.

                      Like I said, a 50/50 chance of winning your argument.
                      Why 50/50 chance of winning when the lease is quite clear of what I have to pay. There is no scope for f/h to charge me individually for f/h repair covenant costs incurred.

                      Lets look at it differently.

                      F/H approves basement works. Basement works go ahead. F/h tenders for external works. External works take place with additional scaffolding covered in contract sum.

                      Is this scenario any different? Or do we would we then need to determine extra scaffolding costs here also? And for any increase in annual insurance premiums etc...?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I think the extra cost should be down to you at all times in the future. Your lightwell has obviously made things very awkward to require nearly £700 of scaffolding.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Well the sizeable £700 extra is mainly down to f/h not planning well and having signed contract where the requirements have changed and contractor was able to charge whatever they wanted.

                          Incidentally there was due to be scaffolding around the whole perimeter of the property (confirmed by the f/h surveyor) but I noticed a section of building at the rear where there was no scaffolding, a clear cost saving for the contractor.

                          Sounds like its a win win for the contractor mainly due to f/h mismanaging the 2 projects...In fact the external works were due to start mid way through the basement project, until an email to the f/h advising this wouldn't be practical as the lightwell was still being constructed!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            JKO any ideas as to how things could have been done differently so that everyone's happy and not feeling overcharged down the line?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Tony50 View Post
                              JKO any ideas as to how things could have been done differently so that everyone's happy and not feeling overcharged down the line?
                              I think I said:

                              Originally posted by JK0 View Post
                              I think the extra cost should be down to you at all times in the future.

                              Comment

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