Lease extension what does this mean please?

[mabel37]

Hi
After some advice please

Lease extension agreed with landlord - 90 years on top of current lease of 80 years, small increase of ground rent from 150 to 175 per year

Basically all terms of the lease remain the same apart from this

Current lease says:

Within one calendar month after such document or instrument as in hereinafter mentioned shall be executed or shall operate or take effect or purport to operate or take effect to produce to the lessors solicitors a certified copy of every transfer mortgage or legal charge (including any statutory notice receipt or release of any charge or notice or deposit with a bank) of this lease or the flat or any part thereof and also every underlease of the flat for more than twelve months and every assignment of such underlease and also every probate letters of administration order of court or other instrument effecting or evidencing a devolution of title as regards the term hereby granted or any such underlease as aforesaid for the purpose of registration and for such registration to pay to such solicitors a reasonable documentation fee in respect of each such document or instrument so produced not being less than twenty pounds (together with value added tax a prevailing rate)

NEW document has a clause which says:

The tenant will within one calendar month next after any absolute transfer assignment charge of devolution of his interest under this present lease in the premises or any part thereof give notice in writing of such transfer assignment charge or devolution and pay to him such reasonable fee. The clause shall replace [x] of the original lease

A few questions please:

- Is this ok to sign?
- I am concerned about the reasonable fee element - what does that mean?
- My solicitor says the fee would also need to be paid by the incoming buyer - but where does it say this?

Please any advice appreciated.

Thanks
Mabes

[Gordon999]

The leaseholder has the legal right to seek a statutory 90 years lease extension at Peppercorn ground rent . ( = Nil ground rent for 170 years ) . Why are you agreeing to pay higher ground rent ???

The "reasonable fee" should follow the same wording as in the existing lease " pay solicitors a reasonable documentation fee of not less than 20 pounds ". This fee is paid by the incoming buyer after property has been registered at Land Registry under buyer's name.

[mabel37]

Thanks I know regarding ground rent it's been an easy process but some elements tricky in that the landlord wanted to double the rent every X years which I didn't agree to. So this was the best negotiation I could get outside of going to lease association and because I am 80 years I agreed

OK thanks

But is it OK as is written? I guess its not capped at an upper limit in the original lease

Does that sentence only refer to documents for transfer or could it mean something else?

Just worried that the landlord could start saying a reasonable fee is £1000 or something

Thanks!

Also does it mean I need to pay if I remortgage also?

Thanks

Gosh sorry for all questions

How does the process work usually For registration? When the fee is paid would that go to the landlord from the solicitor?

Just wondering if the landlord was paid would the solicitor also need to be paid another fee?

Just wanted to double check I'm not signing something which will bite me in the future thanks!

[Gordon999]

Your own solicitor should be advising you on the wording. When you apply for lease extension above 80 years unexpired , there is no marriage value to pay and your legal entitlement is 90 years at Nil ground rent.

You should not rely on comments on meaning of terms in new the lease from the forum members because the members are not solicitors and what is said to you may be not correct.

If the new clause on "reasonable fee" replaces the existing clause it may allow the freeholder to claim any fee is a reasonable fee because knowing its very difficult for the leaseholder to challenge .

You should ask for the existing clause to be kept and reject the new clause because the term a reasonable fee means different figure to different managing agent or solicitor .

[mabel37]

OK thanks my solicitor says it means the same when she explained it to me and I said OK

But on reflection I will go back to her and try and challenge

This last part has been very stressful as I don't want to have to go down statutory route as will mean more £ I have already paid landlord solicitor fees up front and part of my solicitor costs

But of course want to get it right

Thanks for your help

[DNM2012]

The fee would only be payable if you let the flat out, remortgage, sell or place another charge on it and have to notify the landlord. As Gordon suggests you solicitor should advise you this. If you're not planning to do any of the above you will not incur the fee. Reasonable would not be thousands, more like £50-150 but unscrupulous FH will try it on.

Did you get a valuation for a statutory lease extension?
Although the legal fees are higher you are protected throughout the process by the law, although it can still be a stressful experience, you get a 90 year extension and nil ground rent, you'll be paying £1,750 in GR over the next 10 years alone, that might swing the benefit of a statutory extension?
Get your solicitor to check the 90 year extension is added to you existing 80 years giving you 170 years, a little legal scam is restarting the lease from the original date, only giving you 90 years and needing extending again in 10 years.

It is also worth considering whether extending at your time of life is worth doing? Of course if you plan to sell and move it probably is or you're thinking of someone's inheritance, but if you're planning on living out your days there maybe not, you've got 80 years left in the property?

[MrSoffit]

Hi, it's great you caught the plan to double the GR every x years. Your questions expose why the 1993 Act is in disrepute. Leaseholders should never feel trapped into agreeing to an informal lease extension that allows the lease they bought to be torn up and a new one issued with obscure minefields designed only to increase the FH's profit. The purpose of the 1993 Act was to protect lessees with a statutory right. Same lease, add 90 years, no ground rent. You'd think it was a no-brainer. But courts ensure that FHs have a 'human right' to thwart leaseholders' legal ones.

[sgclacy]

The principal reason for the 90 yr extentsion and zero ground rent was to avoid any objections from a lender who has an interest in the leasehold interest. It seems impossible for a stairory lease extentsion to have a negative effect on the flats value.

However the act failed as the lender still has to give consent to an extentsion done user the act

[mabel37]

DNM2012,

Hi thanks such a lot to consider. No not planning to do any of above place as a keyworker home so I stick to same company registered mortgage to avoid all the stress of getting consent etc and paying more

Thanks re the statutory route I see what you mean about being protected but I don't have the £ to go formal route up front costs etc and landlord has actually been OK and negotiating wasn't too difficult

The other solicitor did try adding fewer years to the original date of lease which I pointed out and it got corrected so they have added, 90 to original lease date but that started in 1997 so the same unexpired term either way

Thanks I thought about whether it would cost ££££

I guess all the payments would be included in the as part of sale ? I can't work out how the £ would get to landlord is that directly?

My solicitor did say it was OK but I wanted to check as they didn't notice the discrepancy with the 90 years being added on!

Thanks

Was concerned about marriage value so thought I'd sort it whist I'm lucky enough to be able to pay the £ but no plans on selling

MrSoffit,

Thanks I'm pleased I nobbled that plan too he asked me again a few weeks ago I was like no way even if it doesn't affect me it's not great idea

Yeah I should have considered statutory notice more but it as the upfront costs which put me off. Although small increase in ground rent I'm overall happy with what we agreed also the premium in line with the leasehold calculator


I guess I questioned the wording for new lease re as essentially the original lease as I understand it after reading 500 times says the same thing but a lot wordier

Also I got confused as to why original lease said pay solicitor reasonable costs and new lease says pay landlord

I obviously didn't pay too much attention when I bought the place or have forgotten what happens