Benefit of FTT determinations?

[JK0]

Evening all,

When a lessee applies to the FTT for a determination of service charge, does that determination automatically apply to all lessees, or do they need to apply to the FTT for it to be made to their accounts?

[leaseholdanswers]

Only th applicants. Other can join in or use that determination in their own applications. Sometimes it can apply broadly depending on the expense type and ruling ie the legal costs against you cannot be applied to the service charge.,

[JK0]

Thanks LHA. Do my fellow lessees have to pay another lot of fees, and have hearings then?

Presumably the FTT would have the same findings in all the others' cases, so would it not be in everyone's interests for the freeholder not to make them go to those lengths? Is there a quicker (and cheaper) way?

[mattl]

Is there a quicker (and cheaper) way?

Adding them all as parties?

[JK0]

Thanks Matt. Is it possible to add them as parties after the determination has been made?

[mattl]

Normally you can only add parties to proceedings whilst they are still underway - otherwise it would be a little unfair to apply a judgement (or adjudication in a tribunal) to parties who had no right to state their case

[JK0]

mattl,

Thanks. Yes, that's what I expected. Of course, now it seems unfair that my fellow lessees will have to pay over £1000 more than me. Maybe LHA will be able to shed more light tomorrow.

[ram]

You have 2 choices.

You apply on your own to the FTT. at £ x

You can apply in the name of all leasholders at the same time for £ x

Each application of course requires it's own fee to be sent in, so of course if only you apply, then if others apply after you, again of course they will have to pay their own application fee.

It's easy to get the other leaseholders to apply with you, and split the costs.

[JK0]

It's easy to get the other leaseholders to apply with you, and split the costs.

Ha ha. Thanks Ram. You don't know the other leaseholders.

[ram]

Ha ha. Thanks Ram. You don't know the other leaseholders.

Yes I do ! their brothers / sisters / ex husbands ex wives are here. Same problem here.
All you can do is send a standard letter to all stating what you are going to do, and the costs to be split by the number of applicants should they wish to join you.

But you just may have been asking a generic question, of "What if you claimed", will it apply to the others, and answer is no, not if they did not apply.
But they can use your FTT determination to get a very quick determination for themselves, saying look, same service charges, same place, 5 minutes of your time, job done. ( assuming you win )

[mattl]

It's very simple. Parties to the proceedings share the cost risk of the proceedings so they will jointly benefit from the adjudication. Other parties do neither of the two

[MrSoffit]

Our local LVT insisted on separate applications, each paying individual fee, even though all complained on same grounds. The LVT selected one representative case to hear.

Only applicants benefited from the 'outcome'. Sting is that all flats, whether joined or not, have to pay legal costs if the lease allows. Even if applicants win s20C (we didn't) this doesn't prevent landlord charging other flats their portion of his costs.

Best advice is to pay first, complain to Tribunal after or just sell. Never get taken to Tribunal or you will face costs alone.

LVT was never a low cost option and far as I know the new FTT has unlimited costs? Abandon hope...

[JK0]

Thanks Mr Soffit. Yeah, I paid up within a fortnight of the bill, back in August, and took management co to FTT. It cost me £125 for my application and another £190 for the hearing.

FTT have found in my favour, reducing bill by over £1000. They have ordered my fees to be refunded, and ordered a S20C, that I applied for.

Interesting that other flats can be charged for the management co's legal fees. Did someone forget to put that in the legislation?

[leaseholdanswers]

There is no standard procedure others can join the process or separate applications are made and the T asked to merge them into one hearing, though best of all is to all apply as one.

S20c is a bit of " thats not what you asked for" as if asked correctly the landlord can be barred from adding cost to the service charges period not simply adding it to the service charge and crediting applicants against that element and charging everyone else their %

[JK0]

S20C appeal

My freeholder's agents have applied to appeal the S20C decision because I was not 100% successful in my application. As I asked the FTT to look at all items, for me to have been 100% successful, the service charge would have to have been reduced to nothing.

Any thoughts?