TR1 - one transferor wants to add two new transferees (joint freehold)

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  • leaseholdanswers
    replied
    its a good point and in my waffling in the FAQs a key point in a trust deed or company articles is to include dispute resolution e.g. mediation or arbitration rather than having to resort to injunctions.

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  • andybenw
    replied
    Coolhands, the benefits of a deed of trust can easily be read up on inthis forum and on the net, but just be aware that in your sort of situation with only 3 flats a deed of trust can also have a 'dark side'. ie if you have a different point of view to the other 2 flats they could consistently outvote you, even if their ideas are terrible. This was certainly the case with me until I proved a purported deed null and void.

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  • coolhands
    replied
    Huge thanks. I've done a lot of reading, (read, read, and err.. re-read everything including your linked to article!) By the way yes it is a beneficial joint tenancy. I have proposed to the other leaseholder and freeholder that we do two things (I think):
    1) trust deed set up
    2) extend our leases at the same time

    I will be seeing a properly solicitor who I've met with before about some other stuff to go through this. I understand your point that this is the ideal time to get these things put in place since the seller wants to sell, the buyers want to buy = they will be motivated at this point in time to get any changes we can agree on done.

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  • leaseholdanswers
    replied
    It really depends whether you have any governing document which sets out the ownership and voting among you such as a declaration of trust.

    If it is a beneficial joint tenancy - where the 3 people are a single owner ie the owner is Mr A Mrs B and Miss C, then a 4th name, Ms D would simply alter that, and without any documentation, there would be 1 flat with 2 votes.

    If tenants in common- means the property is as above where the 3 people are a single owner, however a specific share of the value is allocated to them so that Mr C and Miss D as the new owners of flat 3 would be allocated 1/3rd and hopefully if your dealings are straightforward only one vote that they share, and hopefully not end up one of them sleeping on the couch when they disagree.


    As, assuming no documentation is available to the contrary, Mr C and Miss D canot buy and Miss c cannot sell 9 the freehold) without your signature and this is the ideal time to exchange letters setting out that you get one vote, or 1 each and each other flats gets a proportion bump, in this case 2 votes per flat for all flats, or d spot of lawyer bothering and have a proper trust deed drawn up.
    http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...9t-Tell-You-P1

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  • andybenw
    replied
    Where it would be a pain is if you later decided to set up a declaration/deed of trust relating to the freehold. It would I believe make the wording a little more complex. I'm sure one of the legal eagles here will be able to advise. I would push for just 1 of their names to go on. After all 4 is the maximum and you would not be able to do the same in a subsequent sale.

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  • TR1 - one transferor wants to add two new transferees (joint freehold)

    Hi

    One house split into three flats. As it happens us three flat owners (leaseholders) are also the three named people on the freehold title. One flat owner is selling his flat, and consequently wants to transfer the title register from his name to the new buyer. But the new buyer is a couple and they are both noted on the TR1 form (different names - ie appear to be unmarried if it makes a difference).

    That looks to me like the freehold would therefore change from it's current state of having three names on it (of which I am one) to four names. Thus potentially meaning my level of influence / control / ownership would decrease to a quarter, whereas currently it is a third?! or am I reading it wrong? and perhaps it doesn't matter. I haven't signed it yet wanted to seek advice first.

    Where the new buyers are 'name C and D':

    In box 5 it says 'name A, name B, name C and D' so in that sense is name C and D (the new buyers) existing as one entity? (ie the 'and' is significant). Thus they still perhaps only count as one being?

    Or should I be insisting that I only want one new name to go on the form to replace the one name leaving the form? Also isn't it more problematic in future as it would mean finding all four people to sign future transfer of title's etc and what if they split up and one party becomes uncooperative / goes missing etc

    one other point if in the future we want to make changes that require all our agreement eg divding up the garden, would they have more 'say' than the other two freeholders individually ie they would have two votes ie there is now four 'votes' in total if you see what I mean. At the moment there is no company set up or agreement or anything I believe it is a 'Literal Shared Freehold' if that's how it's known.

    thanks

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