Upfront agreement on freeholder costs for tenants improvement works

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    Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
    That is not how I read the original post. We need clarification. (Even if it is the MA who is replying, how can 480 pounds be justified?)
    With due respect to you, you have to remember that this is what my pracitce does. Licence for works can easily run into the £2000- £2500 range and even basic ones, where a simple letter outlines conditions, can easily run into the £180 range.

    The fee as explained is two areas

    1 the appointment of a building surveyor if as they say required, of £300 which will easily be absorbed by 3 inspections, one desktop at the point of the request and two site inspections before and after. If a building surveyor is "in house" the cost may be less in same cases, as they will be familiar with the premises, but appointing an external firm is unlikely to find someone being engaged for less than that amount. This cost is easily exceed of works lead to compilations or the builder is not meeting the terms of the contract.

    By all means given a set of works one might challenge that need and how much they do, and their rates, however it cannot be assumed that a landlord has the competence to assess works and their implications for the building.

    2 On the MA fee that in the same depends on what they are doing. The basis desktop evaluation of the works the lease and a site inspection if required can again ea reach £100 in the shires and in a heartbeat in London! Where they are dealing with the licence this cost can be added to, as well as inspection on completion (unless it is covered by 1).

    It is quite common that the submission is as above based on a quote and wish and a prayer that it’ll all go well. The purpose of reviewing this is to ensure that the owner and builder are aware of what they need to know, but that they must comply with it.

    Moreover there may be a certain amount of communication with others on the works being carried out, the conditions that apply, and dealing with the inevitable moans whines and in some cases real problems. There may also be interuptions to services which might require notification and arranging contractors to work on these eg shutting off water.

    What is often failed to be understood is that if the landlord gives consent then he has liability to adjoining owners from quiet enjoyment to the liability for structural alterations “gone bad”.

    It is unhelpful to compare conveyancing with this work as it is apples and pears for a lot of what is involved in some cases. As this project involves more than a simple upgrade, this is one of those instances.

    The days of doing all this for £50 to £100 are long long gone.

    I have predicated my reply on that the MA is replying as representing the freeholder, and as such their costs would be recoverable. I accept as explained above that the costs are open to change but have indicated how they might be justified. The proof will be in examination by Rob.
    Based on the information posted, I offer my thoughts.Any action you then take is your liability. While commending individual effort, there is no substitute for a thorough review of documents and facts by paid for professional advisers.


      Originally posted by robfoster1980 View Post
      The £480 is obviously not reasonable but in the hope of getting agreement without too much hassle may be, in the big scheme of things, worth paying.!
      You can of course challenge it but as mentioned in the above post with due respect to you and Lawcruncher I doubt that you appreciate what does have to be done.

      Apart for a sense of £480 “is a lot” through your instinct to his comparison to conveyancing only makes the matter harder for you. It is important to look at what the agent and surveyor, if appointed, is doing, which we can as papers are exchanged to see if £180, £300 or £480. all in. is "worth it" with due regard to the necessity and cost.
      Based on the information posted, I offer my thoughts.Any action you then take is your liability. While commending individual effort, there is no substitute for a thorough review of documents and facts by paid for professional advisers.


        Hi leaseholdanswers,
        While agreeing with the above what the other poster has picked up on is that the additional £300 is not the BS fee but a further MA fee for consideration of any advice by the building surveyor, whose fees I would be laible for directly in addition to this extra admin charge.
        This charge will be something i will at least be questioning moving forward if it becomes payable.


          That actually wasn’t his first point but one of the landlord’s own costs as distinct to those that he incurs, which was moved on to the overall justification for the incurred costs of the MA.

          Well again the same answer applies. if the works are of complex nature which require a building surveyor to be employed, that can in turn alter the amount and nature of work that the MA does, from choosing and appointing the surveyor to revisions to the licence and the related consents that the complicated work requires, and ensuring adequate building insurance cover while the work is being done, as well as if the flat is Improved through additional facilities ensuring that the building insurance cover is revalued.

          I agree if they cannot justify and quantify what they do for £300 by all means drag them off tot he FTT.

          In our case I would simply send you the file ( omitting any grumpy notes or comments) as we are committed to transparency- sadly not all are !
          Based on the information posted, I offer my thoughts.Any action you then take is your liability. While commending individual effort, there is no substitute for a thorough review of documents and facts by paid for professional advisers.


            costs for a licence for alterations in forexample outer london are quite commonly surprisingly high. reckon on 500 plus vat for the solicitors and as much as the same for surveyors fees. it all depends on the complexity of the works and the co-operation of the lessee


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