Freeholder not providing Building Insurance details

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    Freeholder not providing Building Insurance details

    Hi Everyone,
    I am in a very uncomfortable situation and wish to seek your advice.
    My freeholder is not sending me the details of the buildinginsurance policy. I asked him to do so back in November 2012 (sent him a letterrecorded delivery), my solicitor made the same request in December 2012 on mybehalf. He responded assuring me that the building is fully insured and that Ishould pay £240, but no details of the policy. The reason why I asked for acopy of the policy is: I had a water leak in the property in October 2012 andthe company that repaired it assured me they will claim all the expense fromthe building insurance. As some time has passed and I was not able to providethe details of the policy so they can make the claim, they said they will sendthe invoice to me. The invoice amount is £964, which is quite significant tome, and I did not expect to pay it, therefore never budgeted for this expense.The situation is even more complicated because I am now going through a leaseextension and do not wish to upset the freeholder too much, so that he does notrequest a hugely high amount for the extension. In short my questions are:
    ·What else can I do to make the landlord providedetails of the building insurance?
    ·Do I have to pay the £240 for building insuranceeven without the copy of the policy (my solicitor dealing with lease extensionadvised not to, but I contacted Lease Advice Bureau who said I can not withholdpayment on this basis)?
    ·Lease Advice also told me that if the freeholderdoes not provide the details within 21 days I can complain to the localauthority – but when I contact Newham Council no one seemed to be able to tellme how to log the complaint and who will deal with it. Which department shouldI contact in the local authority and would it help?
    ·Even if I pay the £240 requested, I believe thesum is quite high, and I don’t know anything about the details of the policy(excess, etc). Can I dispute it with the landlord?
    ·Would it be advisable to just pay the invoicefrom the repair company and then when the lease is extended file a Small ClaimsForm in order to get the money from the freeholder?
    ·When the leak repair company started the workthey did not provide any quote, so I expected a bill of £500 max (they said theequipment they use for detection is £250+vat plus labour). I also made themaware that I did not have the details f the building insurance company at thetime due to the problem with the freeholder (all conversations were on thephone, so can not prove this has been said). Can I dispute this?
    Thank you for your time. Your help is greatly appreciated.

    #2
    I do hate it when people, based on your post, give crap advice.. especially a charging solicitor, let alone LEASE.

    1 Premium. Well if the amount is demanded in the manner and timing required by the lease with the required statutory information under section 47 and 48 LTA 1987 and the summary of rights, then it is due. Unless the lease requires that you have sight of the policy then it is not conditional.

    2 21 Days is nonsense it only operates if the original request is an exercise of your right under LTA section 30A and it's a month.

    Dear Landlord
    In accordance with Section 30A Landlord and Tenant Act 1985,and section 43 schedule 3(2) Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, I require a summary of the Insurance policy which shall include
    (a)the insured amount or amounts under any relevant policy, and
    (b)the name of the insurer under any such policy, and
    (c)the risks in respect of which the dwelling or (as the case may be) the building containing it is insured under any such policy.



    Failure to do so is a criminal offence under para 3(6) of the schedule above and if you fail to do so I will contact the Local Authority and start proceedings in the Local magistrates court myself. http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...d_consolidated


    Try To contact the Private Sector Housing Section, please call 020 3373 1950
    Based on the information posted, I offer my thoughts.Any action you then take is your liability. While commending individual effort, there is no substitute for a thorough review of documents and facts by paid for professional advisers.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Problem5 View Post
      The situation is even more complicated because I am now going through a leaseextension and do not wish to upset the freeholder too much, so that he does notrequest a hugely high amount for the extension.

      ...

      ·Even if I pay the £240 requested, I believe thesum is quite high, and I don’t know anything about the details of the policy(excess, etc). Can I dispute it with the landlord?
      Depending on the circumstances there may be reasons why you can withhold payment but if you don't want to complicate matters with the LL then you can pay and dispute later. Just don't admit that you consider the charge reasonable.

      ·Would it be advisable to just pay the invoicefrom the repair company and then when the lease is extended file a Small ClaimsForm in order to get the money from the freeholder?
      ·When the leak repair company started the workthey did not provide any quote, so I expected a bill of £500 max (they said theequipment they use for detection is £250+vat plus labour). I also made themaware that I did not have the details f the building insurance company at thetime due to the problem with the freeholder (all conversations were on thephone, so can not prove this has been said).
      It's unclear who is responsible for the repair. Is it yourself or the LL? Why not pay the £240 insurance demand and tell the repair company that they said they'd promised to claim direct with the buildings insurance and pass them the LL's details?
      I accept no legal responsibility for comments/advice I make on this forum. Please check with a solicitor before acting on statements made in a public forum.

      Comment


        #4
        You could make an LVT application, the tribunal would not be too happy if the FH still didnt provide insurance details, although the amount of £240 doesnt seem that high, Im being asked to pay £700+ to insure a small flat.

        And you could theoritically insure it yourself as you feared it wasnt insured, there are a few LVt decisions where this scenario has happened.

        But ultimately LHA's advice is the best, and threats of a criminal action should bring him to his sense.

        Andy
        Advice given is based on my experience representing myself as a leaseholder both in the County Court and at Leasehold Valuation Tribunals.

        I do not accept any liability to you in relation to the advice given.

        It is always recommended you seek further advice from a solicitor or legal expert.

        Always read your lease first, it is the legally binding contract between leaseholder and freeholder.

        Comment


          #5
          Thank you very much for your advice. It is highly appreciated. I have now made the payment and will send him a letter stating that and also the request about the insurance policy as per your advice. I hope to get the details shortly.

          Comment


            #6
            It is unclear to me as well who should undertake the repair. It may actually be possible that the leak is not covered, but I still wish to try and claim. Anyway if I provide the details of the insurance company the repair company said it is their problem how to get the money, as long as I send them the details of the insurance in place. I also asked them to send the bill to the landlord directly, but they said that I requested the works and they can not do this. I will see and wait, hopefully the landlord will send the details.

            Comment


              #7
              What was the cause of the leak?

              Sadly you instructed them so you are liable for costs- if they made representations that they would take care of insurance forms etc, then that may help you as unless you gave them the info how on earth could they make that representation?
              Based on the information posted, I offer my thoughts.Any action you then take is your liability. While commending individual effort, there is no substitute for a thorough review of documents and facts by paid for professional advisers.

              Comment


                #8
                They found a small hole in the water pipe. Due to this leak there was no water pressure in the boiler, so consequently there was no hot water and heating at the property. This is why I had to act fast to do the repair. I still hope I can dispute the invoice as no original quote was given, only a phone coversation.

                I sent the letter to the freeholder using your wording:
                "In accordance with Section 30A Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 and Section 43 schedule 3(2) Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, I require a summary of the Insurance policy which shall include:
                (a)the insured amount or amounts under any relevant policy, and
                (b)the name of the insurer under any such policy, and
                (c)the risks in respect of which the dwelling or (as the case may be) the building containing it is insured under any such policy.
                Failure to do so is a criminal offence under para 3(6) of the schedule above and if you fail to do so I will contact the Local Authority and start proceedings in the Local magistrates court myself."
                I wonder if this was not too harsh in the light of the lease extension I am going through.

                The nr you gave me for "Private Sector Housing Section, please call 020 3373 1950". It seems to be a residential nr. Perhaps it has been changed? It is very strange but it appears on the Newham Council website as well. I contacted them via email, lets hope they will respond.

                Could you please also let me know if you are a solicitor. I want to know how much would it cost me to take the freeholder to court for not providing insurance details in time and if it is worth the hassle.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by leaseholdanswers View Post
                  1 Premium. Well if the amount is demanded in the manner and timing required by the lease with the required statutory information under section 47 and 48 LTA 1987 and the summary of rights, then it is due. Unless the lease requires that you have sight of the policy then it is not conditional.
                  Well, if there is no insurance in place (and the LL has stubbornly refused to produce any evidence that there is) then the cost has not been incurred, let alone reasonably incurred.

                  If that is the case, then no payment is due.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by leaseholdanswers View Post
                    I do hate it when people, based on your post, give crap advice.. especially a charging solicitor, let alone LEASE.

                    1 Premium. Well if the amount is demanded in the manner and timing required by the lease with the required statutory information under section 47 and 48 LTA 1987 and the summary of rights, then it is due. Unless the lease requires that you have sight of the policy then it is not conditional.

                    2 21 Days is nonsense it only operates if the original request is an exercise of your right under LTA section 30A and it's a month.

                    Dear Landlord
                    In accordance with Section 30A Landlord and Tenant Act 1985,and section 43 schedule 3(2) Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, I require a summary of the Insurance policy which shall include
                    (a)the insured amount or amounts under any relevant policy, and
                    (b)the name of the insurer under any such policy, and
                    (c)the risks in respect of which the dwelling or (as the case may be) the building containing it is insured under any such policy.



                    Failure to do so is a criminal offence under para 3(6) of the schedule above and if you fail to do so I will contact the Local Authority and start proceedings in the Local magistrates court myself. http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...d_consolidated


                    Try To contact the Private Sector Housing Section, please call 020 3373 1950
                    I wanted to thank Leasehold answers for your advice. The freeholder has now sent me the details of the building insurance policy and I hope this will solve my problem. Thanks a lot for your advice.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Perplexed View Post
                      Well, if there is no insurance in place (and the LL has stubbornly refused to produce any evidence that there is) then the cost has not been incurred, let alone reasonably incurred.

                      If that is the case, then no payment is due.
                      Not the case - the lease may require on account contribution for such things for costs that they expect to incur. What you suggest can only be after the fact or of the lease makes specific prevision such as payment in arrears or insurance rents.
                      Based on the information posted, I offer my thoughts.Any action you then take is your liability. While commending individual effort, there is no substitute for a thorough review of documents and facts by paid for professional advisers.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Problem5 View Post
                        I wanted to thank Leasehold answers for your advice. The freeholder has now sent me the details of the building insurance policy and I hope this will solve my problem. Thanks a lot for your advice.
                        Most welcome. Now we need to see as asked who under your lease is responsible for the repair to the pipe. But do lodge an insurance claim pdq.
                        Based on the information posted, I offer my thoughts.Any action you then take is your liability. While commending individual effort, there is no substitute for a thorough review of documents and facts by paid for professional advisers.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I have now got the next challenge: the building company that carried the work and said they will claim themselves should I produce the policy details, want me to get the claim number.
                          When I tried to call the broker they said I am not authorized to do so, as I am not the policy holder.
                          When trying to contact the landlord he is avoiding my calls.
                          I am thinking of sending him a letter. What would be the best thing to say in it? Is there any way to avoid this, as I paid half of the insurance premium and I can not even claim unless it goes through the freeholder.
                          Thank you for your help.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by leaseholdanswers View Post
                            Most welcome. Now we need to see as asked who under your lease is responsible for the repair to the pipe. But do lodge an insurance claim pdq.
                            I had a look at the lease and it seems that I am responsible for the repair of the pipe. But surely the pipe leak is insured (it would normally be under a standard building insurance policy), and as I paid half of the premium, can I try and claim?
                            The only thing stopping me is the fact that the policy has been taken by the freeholder and I am not authorised to speak to the broker. What can I tell the freeholder in order to get this authorisation?
                            Thank you for your help.

                            Comment

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