Antisocial Council Tenant Harassing My Tenants

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    Antisocial Council Tenant Harassing My Tenants

    I don't know if this woman has mental health issues, but repeatedly her victims have indicated that she acts as though she has. In any event, over several years she has submitted not one, but a whole string of my tenants to verbal abuse, door-slamming, yelling, banging on the ceiling at all times of the day/night.

    for example, on one occasion she slammed the communal door shut while a female tenant was chatting with another tenant outside, yelling "You're not f***ing coming back in here!" (which I construe as attempted unlawful eviction) and when her partner went down, concerned over her safety, this monster verbally assaulted him as well, and left him covered in spittle.

    Such niceties have endured over several years, with the council's incompetent managers basically doing nothing.

    Every time one of my tenants reported an incident they refused to do anything unless my tenants made a 'formal' complaint - in other words, they put them off pursuing the matter as it would be more trouble to my tenants than it would be worth to them - so they would just leave.

    And when I formally complained they said they would only consider complaints from residents.

    The last set of tenants have given their notice because of the harassment and intimidation they have been subjected to by this nutter, and I am at the end of my tether.

    I have threatened to sue the council but they passed on my letter to the incompetent managers who basically did nothing - AND declined any responsibility for the antisocial tenant's actions, even though it is they who are keeping her there.

    I am about 110% certain that if any of my tenants had caused only a tiny fraction of the trouble this monster has caused, they wold have come down on them (and me) like a ton of bricks, but the monster they are effectively protecting.

    I am well and truly fed up and something must be done - but what?

    Any advice?

    #2
    Surely as owner/leaseholder it is your flat and you have every right to complain ? Ultimately you could possible claim substantial damages if you could show you lost rent through council inaction.

    Im sure most councils have policies in place to warn and evict troublesome tenants, and the tenant assumingly has to complie wioth AST or T&C's, although not sure how this relates to you.

    Unfortuantely 'threats' to sue are bandied about by all sorts of debt collection agencies, etc these days, following through with your threat is rare.

    Andy
    Advice given is based on my experience representing myself as a leaseholder both in the County Court and at Leasehold Valuation Tribunals.

    I do not accept any liability to you in relation to the advice given.

    It is always recommended you seek further advice from a solicitor or legal expert.

    Always read your lease first, it is the legally binding contract between leaseholder and freeholder.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Perplexed View Post
      I don't know if this woman has mental health issues, but repeatedly her victims have indicated that she acts as though she has. In any event, over several years she has submitted not one, but a whole string of my tenants to verbal abuse, door-slamming, yelling, banging on the ceiling at all times of the day/night.

      for example, on one occasion she slammed the communal door shut while a female tenant was chatting with another tenant outside, yelling "You're not f***ing coming back in here!" (which I construe as attempted unlawful eviction) and when her partner went down, concerned over her safety, this monster verbally assaulted him as well, and left him covered in spittle.

      Such niceties have endured over several years, with the council's incompetent managers basically doing nothing.

      Every time one of my tenants reported an incident they refused to do anything unless my tenants made a 'formal' complaint - in other words, they put them off pursuing the matter as it would be more trouble to my tenants than it would be worth to them - so they would just leave.

      And when I formally complained they said they would only consider complaints from residents.

      The last set of tenants have given their notice because of the harassment and intimidation they have been subjected to by this nutter, and I am at the end of my tether.

      I have threatened to sue the council but they passed on my letter to the incompetent managers who basically did nothing - AND declined any responsibility for the antisocial tenant's actions, even though it is they who are keeping her there.

      I am about 110% certain that if any of my tenants had caused only a tiny fraction of the trouble this monster has caused, they wold have come down on them (and me) like a ton of bricks, but the monster they are effectively protecting.

      I am well and truly fed up and something must be done - but what?

      Any advice?
      Ask the freeholder to take action against the Council; they will have a contract under which they can claim costs etc, whereas your action would be more difficult and time consuming.

      Clearly, this behaviour is unacceptable and the freeholder has an obligation to enforce the various terms of the lease, one of which I would imagine would prohibit the actions you are referring to, Perplexed.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by dant View Post
        Ask the freeholder to take action against the Council; they will have a contract under which they can claim costs etc, whereas your action would be more difficult and time consuming.

        Clearly, this behaviour is unacceptable and the freeholder has an obligation to enforce the various terms of the lease, one of which I would imagine would prohibit the actions you are referring to, Perplexed.
        Im a bit confused now, is the OP a leaseholder (who we assume has a freeholder)_, but the other flat the freeholder is the council ? (who he has already complained to ?)

        Andy
        Advice given is based on my experience representing myself as a leaseholder both in the County Court and at Leasehold Valuation Tribunals.

        I do not accept any liability to you in relation to the advice given.

        It is always recommended you seek further advice from a solicitor or legal expert.

        Always read your lease first, it is the legally binding contract between leaseholder and freeholder.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by dant View Post
          Ask the freeholder to take action against the Council; they will have a contract under which they can claim costs etc, whereas your action would be more difficult and time consuming.

          Clearly, this behaviour is unacceptable and the freeholder has an obligation to enforce the various terms of the lease, one of which I would imagine would prohibit the actions you are referring to, Perplexed.
          The council IS the freeholder of the building, as well as the antisocial tenant's landlord.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Perplexed View Post
            The council IS the freeholder of the building, as well as the antisocial tenant's landlord.
            This will probably be dealt with by two different departments within the council. The goal would be to get the part dealing with freehold issues/legal coordinating with the department that manages tenancies, by taking legal action under the lease.

            Has the OP considered moving in so that he can call the police regarding harrassment and also legitimately complain to the council?
            All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

            * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * *

            You can search the forums here:

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Bel View Post
              This will probably be dealt with by two different departments within the council. The goal would be to get the part dealing with freehold issues/legal coordinating with the department that manages tenancies, by taking legal action under the lease.

              Has the OP considered moving in so that he can call the police regarding harrassment and also legitimately complain to the council?
              Frankly, the last thing I'd want to do is go and live in close proximity to that monster!!

              Additionally, the property would be far too small for me.

              Comment


                #8
                Its not because the weather is miserable but the more I hear about elements of our society that are beyond punishment or redemption, that it just reinforces my view that we need to open up old mines and quarries. Perhaps that might get through their thick skulls that if they cannot understand that there are limits to behaviour,that there is a consequence and that social housing carries with it responsibilities over conduct towards ones neighbours, and it is not a right.

                Perhaps the Councils and RSL's will be able then to truly have an alternate to eviction and an immmedaite obligation to rehouse.
                Foster the children at give them some hope.

                As for your situation I'd shout back at here and the moment she raises her hand you call the Police and press charges. Hopefully social services might then take her away. I was told of someone who carried one of those water bottles you use for ironing and treated a lunatics neighbour like a troublesome pet and squirted the water in their face. entirely harmless and due course they kept their distance.

                Check your lease if they are obligated to enforce the covenants, then purse the non performance through the formal complaints system of the council, not the ALMO, refuse that, the council are the woodland, so that by stage 3 you can go to the ombudsman for financial losses.

                The court will look to their responses to the formal complaint process and that will assist with costs and a judgement as it means that they should have reviewed the case several times before you took it to court.
                Based on the information posted, I offer my thoughts.Any action you then take is your liability. While commending individual effort, there is no substitute for a thorough review of documents and facts by paid for professional advisers.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by leaseholdanswers View Post
                  . I was told of someone who carried one of those water bottles you use for ironing and treated a lunatics neighbour like a troublesome pet and squirted the water in their face. entirely harmless and due course they kept their distance.
                  Good advice to give the next tenant at check-in
                  All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

                  * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * *

                  You can search the forums here:

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Bel View Post
                    Good advice to give the next tenant at check-in
                    My tenants don't want to get bogged down with Police, Court appearances and the rest - they just leave.

                    And frankly, I don't blame them!!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by leaseholdanswers View Post
                      Its not because the weather is miserable but the more I hear about elements of our society that are beyond punishment or redemption, that it just reinforces my view that we need to open up old mines and quarries. Perhaps that might get through their thick skulls that if they cannot understand that there are limits to behaviour,that there is a consequence and that social housing carries with it responsibilities over conduct towards ones neighbours, and it is not a right.

                      Perhaps the Councils and RSL's will be able then to truly have an alternate to eviction and an immmedaite obligation to rehouse.
                      Foster the children at give them some hope.

                      As for your situation I'd shout back at here and the moment she raises her hand you call the Police and press charges. Hopefully social services might then take her away. I was told of someone who carried one of those water bottles you use for ironing and treated a lunatics neighbour like a troublesome pet and squirted the water in their face. entirely harmless and due course they kept their distance.

                      Check your lease if they are obligated to enforce the covenants, then purse the non performance through the formal complaints system of the council, not the ALMO, refuse that, the council are the woodland, so that by stage 3 you can go to the ombudsman for financial losses.

                      The court will look to their responses to the formal complaint process and that will assist with costs and a judgement as it means that they should have reviewed the case several times before you took it to court.
                      Luckily this woman does not have any children living with her, but they still won't touch her!

                      I have sent not just a complaint, but a letter before action to the council, and they passed it on to the ALMO who have been shielding this monster for the last few years.

                      I am well and truly at the end of my tether.

                      When you say Ombudsman, do you mean the Local Ombudsman?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Perplexed View Post
                        Luckily this woman does not have any children living with her, but they still won't touch her!

                        I have sent not just a complaint, but a letter before action to the council, and they passed it on to the ALMO who have been shielding this monster for the last few years.

                        I am well and truly at the end of my tether.

                        When you say Ombudsman, do you mean the Local Ombudsman?
                        The local government ombudsman for ALMOs or http://www.housing-ombudsman.org.uk/ for RSLs.
                        Based on the information posted, I offer my thoughts.Any action you then take is your liability. While commending individual effort, there is no substitute for a thorough review of documents and facts by paid for professional advisers.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by leaseholdanswers View Post
                          The local government ombudsman for ALMOs or http://www.housing-ombudsman.org.uk/ for RSLs.
                          Oh, thanks, LHA.

                          I didn't even know there was a special ombudsman for ALMOs.

                          Has anybody here ever had anything to do with the Housing Ombudsman Service? Are they likely to help, or are they just another toothless watchdog not worth the money it costs to keep it in existence?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            My tenants vacated in early November, citing the harassment they were subjected to by the antisocial council tenant as the main reason for leaving.

                            The flat is still unlet now and likely to remain so until the new year as my letting agents tell me enquiries on all their advertised properties have dwindled to next to nothing.

                            Naturally I intend to sue the council for the loss of rent, as they refused to take any real action against their own tenant (the council are also the freeholder).

                            Trouble is, I don't know how much my losses will be in total, so I don't know what amount to claim for nor to which track the claim is likely to be allocated.

                            Additionally, I don't know whether I should claim for the gross rent or the rent net of my letting agents' fees.

                            Any advice would be gratefully appreciated.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Perplexed View Post
                              My tenants vacated in early November, citing the harassment they were subjected to by the antisocial council tenant as the main reason for leaving.

                              The flat is still unlet now and likely to remain so until the new year as my letting agents tell me enquiries on all their advertised properties have dwindled to next to nothing.

                              Naturally I intend to sue the council for the loss of rent, as they refused to take any real action against their own tenant (the council are also the freeholder).

                              Trouble is, I don't know how much my losses will be in total, so I don't know what amount to claim for nor to which track the claim is likely to be allocated.

                              Additionally, I don't know whether I should claim for the gross rent or the rent net of my letting agents' fees.

                              Any advice would be gratefully appreciated.
                              It is possible to claim for an unspecified amount and let the Judge decide (and perhaps have ready a rough guide of the losses), how much do you expect the loss to be ?., it is certainly worth keeping it under £5000 small limit, so as to limit any costs should you lose (also fast/multi track claims are more complex).

                              There is however a limit of only £1000 for disrepair claims on small track, see here > http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...l/rules/part27 27.1 (2)(Third bullet point), but not 100% sure if that applies to damages in your case.

                              I've got some bumpf saved on my PC here about cost of damages I'll go look for it.

                              Andy
                              Advice given is based on my experience representing myself as a leaseholder both in the County Court and at Leasehold Valuation Tribunals.

                              I do not accept any liability to you in relation to the advice given.

                              It is always recommended you seek further advice from a solicitor or legal expert.

                              Always read your lease first, it is the legally binding contract between leaseholder and freeholder.

                              Comment

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