Property dispute between family members

[Virginia Creeper]

Hi there

This is not a rental issue but if anyone has any experience of this I'd be grateful

5 years ago my mother put a deposit down on a house and paid all the costs (survey, solicitors fees etc.)

She also cleared my credit card debts of approx 20,000

My sole name went onto the deeds (my mum was not available to co-sign at the time)

She now says that the house is hers (she has in fact been saying this since the purchase was completed)

She has offered to give me a deposit so that I can buy another property with my partner (who doesn't earn much money)

Does she have any rights? can she claim part or full ownership of a house that I am living in?

She says it was always intended as an investment and that her name was to have been included on the deeds

[ram]

Suggest you repay her the deposit, all the fees, and the £ 20000
she also lent you.

That way, you can look upon it that her efforts have been repaid
in full, but no, she has no title to the house.

You have made all the payments, but without your mother, you
would not be sitting in that house, you would have been in court,
for being unable to pay off your credit card.

Do the right thing, sell it to her at the original price, less the deposit
fees and £ 20000.

My mother was GOOD to me, with deposits and credit cards, and
fridges, and washing machines etc etc ,and I totted it all up, and
made an effort to repay her.

When I sold the house ( in the boom ) I gave her a windfall, for the
help she had given me. And it came to the exact amount she lent
me.

Yes, Mothers DO give cash to their children, hoping to get it back,
but knowing they may never get it back.

I made sure she got it back, as it was the right thing to do.
She has lent me more money since, knowing that my 5 cars will
eventualy be sold, and she will get more money back.
But knows she may not, but she is thankful that I repaid the
first round of money, and does not hesitate to lend where I need
it, and is probably coming from the money I gave her back, anyway.

Keeps everyone happy, but dont take take take.
You only have one Mother, and she will be the best friend you will
ever have, --- ever !

Moral lecture endeth.

R.a.M.

[oaktree]

Generally I'd agree with what RAM says, but it doesn't say in your post whether you've been paying the mortgage of whether your mother has. If your mother has been paying it, and can prove it, she may well be able to claim an interest in the house if she has been contributing towards it.

[Virginia Creeper]

thanks to both of you for your replies

I have been paying the mortgage. My mother made it clear to me that if I got into trouble with repayments then she would help me out.

We did have an arrangement, that I would live in the property and pay the mortgage as rent (less than I was paying in my former accommodation)

My mother said that at any time I wanted to leave the property (I was supposed to be re-locating abroad with my partner) then she would give me back all the money I'd paid in mortgage repayments.

She has made the point that it was an investment for her and also why would she "give" me all that money when she hasn't done the same for my siblings?

I really want to know if she can prove that there is a clear financial trail (as there is) can she say that I have acted without her permission by putting my sole name on the deeds? She always planned to put my name on because of inheritance tax etc.

Because we've been arguing over this for the last few years, I started to pay her a monthly sum of 400 which she says is no good to her as she wants a lump sum so that she can invest it.

I've now stopped paying it as I think it makes me look as if I am admitting that she does have an interest in the property and that I do owe her.

[Bel]

I was very impressed with RAM's moral take on the issue.

What I do not understand is how just your name ended up on the deeds. Sloppy instructions to solicitors?

The obvious thing is to get accountants and solicitors advice to know where you stand now, and what happens if you transfer the property to her and how it may affect your tax position etc.

If your name is on the deeds then it would probably take a court case to sort out anything different if you refuse to go along with it. I would imagine it would not look good for your mother in court if it was seen to be some kind of tax dodge, so she may not want to go down that route.

Only you (and may be your mother) know what was originally proposed at the time. I think it was a mistake that she allowed to property to be put in your name when she wished to retain control; I have no sympathy with her on that, but it would not be right to take advantage of her either.

I suggest that you stick to the original agreement in principle. If the rules or situation has changed,(for example your mother has decided that she wants something different to happen) there may be the need to compromise on either side.

Is part of the problem that you want to stay in the property now and she had expected you to leave?

[Virginia Creeper]

Hi Bel

My mum's name was to be put on the deeds at the time of purchase but she was not able to be there

She's wasn't trying to dodge tax, but merely trying to minimise the amount paid when she dies, many people do the same.

If I'm honest, it's me who has changed the goal posts and I have not behaved well over this, and our relationship has broken down.

I've turned down all her options because I don't want to give her half the house, nor do I want to leave the house, even if she pays me back all the mortgage repayments I've paid

[Bel]

Hi Bel

My mum's name was to be put on the deeds at the time of purchase but she was not able to be there

It's water under the bridge now so not important; but just because she was not able to sign a contract or whatever becaue she was away... there are ways around this.

She's wasn't trying to dodge tax, but merely trying to minimise the amount paid when she dies, many people do the same.

Strictly apeaking she is avoiding the tax man. Any gifts should mean that she retains no benefit from them afterwards. This clearly has not happened.

If I'm honest, it's me who has changed the goal posts and I have not behaved well over this, and our relationship has broken down.
I've turned down all her options because I don't want to give her half the house, nor do I want to leave the house, even if she pays me back all the mortgage repayments I've paid

Your honest about it and the power is now in your hands to make a change. I hope it works out. You're older now, and wiser. What you do or do not do will stay with you for the rest of your life. Get proper professional advice , think what you need and what you want (2 different things!), and work out a plan.

[YesAdam]

Your mum sounds awesome:
- Paid for Deposit (WOW!, awesome mum!)
- Paid Survey and Conveyanceing Fees
- Cleared Credit Card Debts (WOW!, awesome mum!)
- Does not charge you money other than mortgage
- Says she'd pay you back mortgage payments when you leave (WOW!, awesome mum!)

Sure, you can try to screw your mum over if you wish. Very likely to fall out with siblings/family also.

I'd view the mortgage payments as "low rent" (not ask for repayment) and accept deposit offered by your mum for another property. With the definite point that its either a GIFT or LOAN and not a right to ownership.

Your putting across to me that your not a very decent son, please explain how your mum has screwed you over? Otherwise she is pretty awesome and your trying to take liberties.

Id personally sit down with Mum and decide best outcome for both.

[ram]

I've turned down all her options because I don't want to give her
half the house, nor do I want to leave the house, even if she pays
me back all the mortgage repayments I've paid

would live in the property and pay the mortgage as rent (less than
I was paying in my former accommodation)

She basicly bought the house ( paying a considerable amount of
money to you ) expecting you to move out to be with your partner.

She basicly bought the house so you would be paying less rent
than the rent you were currently paying.

She said you could pay rent to live there, but may as well just give
that to the mortgage company, so her intention was it would be her house.

She was just not available to sign for the house, on the day, and
only you signed.

It is CLEAR that a verbal ageement was entered into, that you would
be paying rent to live there.

It was her intention to pay the deposit, pay off your cedit card,
and for you to rent the place, and insted of you giving her rent, you
sent the rent to the motgage company.( In it's simplest form ......... )

She wants HER house back, that she let you stay in, for rent sent
to the mortgage company.

Your ONLY option, is to sell the house, give the money to your mother,
and she says she will give you MORE money to put a deposit
down on a different house.

Your mother will die before you do, do you want her to die, knowing
you stole a house from her, you refused to move out and give her
the procees from the house, because there is no way she can
afford to pay a house deposit and your credit card.

Suggest you put her name on the deeds, to at least make her see
her child is not so bad after all, before she dies.
You don't have to leave once her name is on the deeds, you just
thrash it out over time, but do the right thing, put her name on the
deeds.

R.a.M.

[leaseholdanswers]

Bluntly, I don't think that there is an answer we can give, as in the absence of a written agreement, it is a complicated mix of what both you intended and did, and how that is backed up in law and action. That can only be agreed by discussion or litigation.

On however the basis of what you have posted, much of the legal discussion will be over Equity; how would you reconcile the clearance of the debts the initial payments and the subsequent mortgage as rent agreement, and the trust in you to allow completion in her absence, with asserted ownership?

I would suggest that rather than litigate, you take legal advice and you should seriously consider mediation first to see if you can reach an agreement.

And as opinion, you should be rather more grateful.

[Virginia Creeper]

Thanks for all your replies, it is appreciated and as I've said previously, I'm not all at proud of my behaviour.