Is a 999 year the same as a Freehold?

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    #16
    Originally posted by JK0 View Post
    I bet freeholder wants to keep garages so he can build on top of them.

    You got it spot on. There is currently a loft space above each garage. The leases only cover the garage to the interior ceiling and do not cover the loft area.

    My point to my fellow neighbors is that i do not see why we would want to pay almost £800 to extend the lease from 160 years to 999 years. For sure i would pay the fair rate for the freehold but not for a lease extension.

    I am in the minority amongst my neighbors but i don't think they fully understand it.

    Comment


      #17
      But you will still each have a long lease of the flat and the garage ( you say the flat and garage are in the same lease) so there is only one lease each to extend.

      A fair price for the freehold will include the right to sell lease extensions if it has an element of hope value for building over it or near to it.

      But if you formally enfranchised if they are on one lease that makes a compelling case for it to be included as pointed out earlier by another member.

      The freeholder can grant themselves a lease over the garage and access rights, thereby reserving development value in their own new 999 year lease.
      Based on the information posted, I offer my thoughts.Any action you then take is your liability. While commending individual effort, there is no substitute for a thorough review of documents and facts by paid for professional advisers.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by leaseholdanswers View Post
        But you will still each have a long lease of the flat and the garage ( you say the flat and garage are in the same lease) so there is only one lease each to extend.

        A fair price for the freehold will include the right to sell lease extensions if it has an element of hope value for building over it or near to it.

        But if you formally enfranchised if they are on one lease that makes a compelling case for it to be included as pointed out earlier by another member.

        The freeholder can grant themselves a lease over the garage and access rights, thereby reserving development value in their own new 999 year lease.
        Its currently 1 lease comprising of a flat with a garage.
        Originally we were each offered the freehold (share of) and agreed a price.

        But now the landlord has said the flat will be freehold but the garage will be on a 999 year lease (which he and others refer to as "like a freehold"!).

        The price has been calculated and stayed the same as the original price.

        My neighbors have agreed but i can't see the point in extending a lease on a garage but buying the freehold of the flat.

        Hopefully i am making sense and i am not missing the obvious.

        Comment


          #19
          Well it is clear now that a lack of knowledge is the root of the problem.

          What is being proposed is that the tit;e to the flat and garage is
          severed and the flat becomes freehold and the garage a new long leasehold.

          You cannot have a freehold flat ( well you can expect that they are littered with cross covenants and no lender will touch them with a barge pole). To quote the legal maxim " never ever sever".

          You need leases first as a legal necessity; freehold by definition means from the centre of the earth to the top of the sky, leaving aside numerous exceptions such as flying over and mining, so to split that up long leases are required. Secondly you need a lease each to create a legal entity for you to individually own your home and thirdly to manage thee relationships between you occupation service charge and respective obligations, freeholder repairs x, you repair y.

          You would therefore be buying the freehold collectively and keeping your individual leases ideally extending them for 999 years.

          You could agree to buy the freehold of the block, surrender the leases, and grant your selves new ones for the flat and let him grant new separate leases of the garages.

          that would however be very expensive with the legal paperwork, especally teh numerous consents ome mortgagees and far easier to

          a; as suggested give him a lease to allow development
          b; get advice on collective enfranchisement and have the LVT thrash out the terms.

          It is my strong view that the fact that the leases of the flat and garage are one, he doesn't have lot of choice but to agree to your terms
          Based on the information posted, I offer my thoughts.Any action you then take is your liability. While commending individual effort, there is no substitute for a thorough review of documents and facts by paid for professional advisers.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by leaseholdanswers View Post
            Well it is clear now that a lack of knowledge is the root of the problem.

            What is being proposed is that the tit;e to the flat and garage is
            severed and the flat becomes freehold and the garage a new long leasehold.

            You cannot have a freehold flat ( well you can expect that they are littered with cross covenants and no lender will touch them with a barge pole). To quote the legal maxim " never ever sever".

            You need leases first as a legal necessity; freehold by definition means from the centre of the earth to the top of the sky, leaving aside numerous exceptions such as flying over and mining, so to split that up long leases are required. Secondly you need a lease each to create a legal entity for you to individually own your home and thirdly to manage thee relationships between you occupation service charge and respective obligations, freeholder repairs x, you repair y.

            You would therefore be buying the freehold collectively and keeping your individual leases ideally extending them for 999 years.

            You could agree to buy the freehold of the block, surrender the leases, and grant your selves new ones for the flat and let him grant new separate leases of the garages.

            that would however be very expensive with the legal paperwork, especally teh numerous consents ome mortgagees and far easier to

            a; as suggested give him a lease to allow development
            b; get advice on collective enfranchisement and have the LVT thrash out the terms.

            It is my strong view that the fact that the leases of the flat and garage are one, he doesn't have lot of choice but to agree to your terms
            Thank you so much for such a detailed response. I think your view of how the transaction will be structured is correct.
            I don't fully understand the last sentence. Are you saying that your view is that the freeholder doesn't have a lot of choice but to agree to sel@ us the garages freeholds?
            My problem is I understand and agree with the flat structure whereby the new co purchase the freehold and then grant leases ( so essentially we own a share of the freehold co each) . However I don't want to have a different structure for my garage. I already have a very long lease, I don't see the point in paying to simply extend it.
            Ps excuse my typing but I am posting from my ipad.

            Comment

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