Retrospective consent to sub-let

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Retrospective consent to sub-let

    I am a new member so I hope I am doing this correctly. My problem is that I have a long lease on a flat (120 years) and when I bought it, it was on the understanding I would be subletting. I assumed my solicitor would have seen to this, but now have a letter from {Mod - Name Removed}, representing {Mod - Name Removed}, saying they have no record of consent being granted to sublet. I accept this because I don't seem to have any documentation either. My tenant has been in the property since 1993 on an initial Assured Shorthold Tenancy which is all in order. {Mod - Name Removed} are seeking £85 registration fee plus £135 for a 'Standard' Licence (the same as Consent I believe), making a total of £220. While I accept I will have to pay for a retrospective Consent this seems rather a high price. They also say that if the same tenant continues to reside at the property the consent will need to be renewed and they will only renew it for a further fixed term. I am at a loss to understand what they mean. My questions are:

    Is the price reasonable? and

    Does the consent really have to be renewed over and over again?

    The lease merely says that consent from the Lessor is required to sublet - why are all these continuing fees needed?
    Sorry this is such a long spiel, but I hope somebody can shed some light.

    Katie A

    #2
    It's a try-on Katie. You don't have to ask or pay for consent to sublet. Have a look at this page and subsequent ones:

    http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ld-flat/page43
    To save them chiming in, JPKeates, Theartfullodger, Boletus, Mindthegap, Macromia, Holy Cow & Ted.E.Bear think the opposite of me on almost every subject.

    Comment


      #3
      Thank you for your quick response jamesknight0. I have read the thread on your link with interest. From it I understand that I do not have to pay for the consent, but my lease does state that 'The Lessee ... within 28 days of the date of every assignment .... give notice thereof in writing to the Lessor and pay a fee for registration calculated at the rate of 0.1% of the Notice Value of the demised premises ...' I don't know what the Notice Value is but it seems I am due to pay something for registration. Is this registration with {Mod - Name Removed} (as it is stated in the lease, but now {Mod - Name Removed} presumably) or the Land Registry? It's all quite confusing. Does the 1927 Act override the terms of the Lease? (which is dated 1984 incidentally). And of course, I did not comply with the terms of the lease by giving notice of the underletting, so that may not be good for my case.

      Comment


        #4
        Oh, well then you may have to pay for notice to the freeholder, but you only have to do this once per tenant, not every six months. Is it possible you notified the previous freeholder? In that case, there is no need to, or pay for doing so again.

        Yes, laws always override leases.

        edit: You may not even have to pay for the notice. I expect the LVT would find that only applied to selling the flat.
        To save them chiming in, JPKeates, Theartfullodger, Boletus, Mindthegap, Macromia, Holy Cow & Ted.E.Bear think the opposite of me on almost every subject.

        Comment


          #5
          The fee to pay for ~serving a notice of assignment" applies when you dispose of your flat and normally done by the buyer's conveyancing solicitor. I think a fee O.1% charged on a sale at 200K pds would come to £200 which is still an excessive sum for entering the new lessee's name and address on their records for billing of future ground rent billings.

          Do you know when the freehold was sold to {Mod - Name Removed}? Were you offered right of first refusal when the freehold was sold ?

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks for all your advice and help. I don't know when the freehold was sold to {Mod - Name Removed} but will try to find out. I know I have never been offered the right of first refusal though. I would have remembered!

            Comment


              #7
              They will probably have done it by acquiring all the shares in the previous freehold company. (This lets them sidestep offering it to the lessees.)
              To save them chiming in, JPKeates, Theartfullodger, Boletus, Mindthegap, Macromia, Holy Cow & Ted.E.Bear think the opposite of me on almost every subject.

              Comment


                #8
                You can spend 4 pounds at Land Registry online and buy a copy of the freehold title for your post code. This will show the date when your freehold was transferred.

                Then you can ask for {Mod - Name Removed} for details of their purchase of the freehold in 2008 ?

                Comment


                  #9
                  I wrote to {Mod - Name Removed} asking who {Mod - Name Removed} was since I had received nothing concerning this company, and I have received a letter enclosing Certificates of Change of Name from {Mod - Name Removed} to {Mod - Name Removed} to {Mod - Name Removed} to {Mod - Name Removed}, this last dated 24 March 2011. Should I not have been served with this information at the relevant time without asking for it? It surely affects the title and it would be necessary to have in the deeds if I were to sell (very tempting now I admit). I am interested in the recent Decisions by the LVT about fees for granting consent. I wonder if I should tell {Mod - Name Removed} that I am aware of those decisions, or would that just make them more spiteful? I admit I am concerned that they could really mess me about. I am not a professional landlord, but simply have the one flat and a tenant who has been there since 1993, so I am not conversant with all the legalities of what they can do and get away with. They seem to be regarding a lease in the same light as a tenancy, and have introduced all sorts of conditions not in the original Lease. Can they change or add to the terms like this? After all it is a contract when all's said and done, and one cannot unilaterally decide to do other than what is in a contract after it has been agreed. I would wlecome anyone's views as it may help to straighten out my own panicky thinking.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The situation is further muddied by the fact that I had assumed that since my solicitors at the time of purchasing the Lease knew I was intending to let the flat, they would have sought consent to let. This was 24 years ago, and they have since gone out of business (after intervention by the Law Society) so I can't contact them. I certainly have not got any documentation to say the Lessor consents, and neither have {Mod - Name Removed} so I am told by {Mod - Name Removed}. Can {Mod - Name Removed} withhold retrospective consent legally? In all other respects I and my tenant have complied with the terms of the Lease and the Assured shorthold Tenancy.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Katie A View Post
                      Thank you for your quick response jamesknight0. I have read the thread on your link with interest. From it I understand that I do not have to pay for the consent, but my lease does state that 'The Lessee ... within 28 days of the date of every assignment .... give notice thereof in writing to the Lessor and pay a fee for registration calculated at the rate of 0.1% of the Notice Value of the demised premises ...' I don't know what the Notice Value is but it seems I am due to pay something for registration. Is this registration with {Mod - Name Removed} (as it is stated in the lease, but now {Mod - Name Removed} presumably) or the Land Registry? It's all quite confusing. Does the 1927 Act override the terms of the Lease? (which is dated 1984 incidentally). And of course, I did not comply with the terms of the lease by giving notice of the underletting, so that may not be good for my case.
                      The lease should define "Notice Value" somewhere.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Yes, "'the Notice Value' means the consideration set out in the document then being registered save that where the consideration is nominal or the document put up for registration has no reference to consideration the expression "the notice value" means the last full consideration for value relating to the ... flat", but since I can't really understand it, it doesn't help much - registration with the Lessor or HM Land Registry?!! The last consideration may be the price I paid for it?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          1. The payment of fee for registering a Notice of transfer or assignment to Land Registry only arises when ownership of the flat cchanges to others. Usually paid by a buyer's conveyancing solicitor.

                          2. Registering of a Notice for subletting is served on the freeholder or its agent ( if it is worded inside your lease as a covenant by the lessee ).
                          If under your AST rental agreement for one year the annual rent is 9600 pounds ( say 12 months @ £800 per month , then 0.1% fee on £9600 for registering of subletting Notice would amount to £9.60

                          3. Have you bought a copy of the freehold title for your post code address from Land Registry Online ? It costs £4 by credit card. This will show the date when the freehold was transferred to {Mod - Name Removed} in 2008 and name of previous freehold company ? ( There should have been an offer of right of first refusal before date of this transfer to {Mod - Name Removed} . )

                          4. I notice that you have continuously been letting the property since 1993 and have never been demanded any fee for registering a Notice even thought the previous freehold was aware of your subletting. You may be able to claim the freeholder has waived its right to demand registration fees for past 18 years and is now estopped to making this demand.

                          5. You also need to consider how many years left on your lease as any lease extension below 80 years requires payment of marriage value in the compensation formula.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thank you Gordon. I have done as you suggested but strangely, the Land Registry result is, "Sorry, we do not have a record of any titles for this property. This does not necessarily mean that the property is unregistered". Should I be worried about this?

                            I have been renting the property since 1993 to the same tenant it is true, but I was under the impression that consent would have been sought when I bought it, and didn't realise that a new consent was necessary for every subsequent letting anyway. But this is all academic, since {Mod - Name Removed} say the freeholder ({Mod - Name Removed}) have no record of consent to sub-let being sought or given, and that I am in breach of the Lease.

                            Regarding an extension of the Lease, the Head Lease is dated 1984 so I don't envisage wanting an extension in my lifetime.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              1. Ring up the customer service number at land registry and ask how to buy a copy of the freehold title .

                              2. Find out date/year when {Mod - Name Removed} became the freeholder. You were renting since 1993 and many companies don't normally keep records over 6 years. Why should they have a record of your letting history from 24 years ago. ?

                              3. The headlease started from 1984 and 26 years have passed , so many years left on your lease ? ?

                              Leases have to be extended before the term falls to 80 years or the capital value starts to fall very quickly. Leases are only long term rental agreements and mortgage lenders /building societies are reluctant to lend on leases below 70 years. If you don't understand , go and have a chat with a few estate agents to explain the problem on leases.

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              • Service charges according to floorspace vs lease stipulation
                                by Santa Fe
                                Hello. I own a flat in a block of four. The new owner of the smallest flat is disputing their contribution to service charges based on floor size. All four flats have historically paid 25% each, but of the four leases only mine states that I pay 25%. I have spoken with a solicitor about this and he...
                                24-01-2022, 22:55 PM
                              • Reply to Service charges according to floorspace vs lease stipulation
                                by Lawcruncher
                                Whether the complaining owner goes to a tribunal or a court, I think that on any assessment a basement bedsit paying the same as a two bedroom flat is not "fair and reasonable". You do not really want to be getting into tribunals or the like. I suggest you propose that the two bedroom flats...
                                26-01-2022, 09:01 AM
                              • Reply to AGM cancelled.
                                by Andrea Cunningham
                                Call an EGM. Make sure you give proper notice and that it is legal (download a boilerplate notice off the internet). In that EGM you can vote new directors in, or even vote the old directors out.
                                26-01-2022, 07:14 AM
                              • AGM cancelled.
                                by Grumio
                                Is this legal?

                                A bit of background, we currently have three directors, we are allowed to have up to a maximum of eight directors according to the articles of association. We are all leaseholders. Last summer the three directors decided to hire a managing agent who is now in charge of the...
                                26-01-2022, 00:46 AM
                              • Lease extension triggers doubling ground rent change
                                by SouthernDave
                                Has anyone had dealing with doubling ground rents?
                                i have just asked for a quote for a lease extension and they are proposing new ground rent terms of a doubling ground rent every 25 years. My commercial guy has said some lenders don't like these which may reduce the value of the property of i...
                                25-01-2022, 22:53 PM
                              • What can I do about my right of way.
                                by Trevor62
                                I live in the upper flat of a maisonette, I have a right of way that goes around the back of the building from the side entrance, there are only two flats in the building.

                                Anyway for years there has been a gate with a lock to go through the right of way, now for the past year the flat has...
                                23-01-2022, 23:01 PM
                              • Reply to What can I do about my right of way.
                                by Trevor62



                                This is the ROW as it is in the land registry.


                                Can I ask another question?

                                As you can read it says Boundary determined by edge of pavings. Before the other party moved out they built a fence along the boundary though they build it on my side of the...
                                25-01-2022, 20:58 PM
                              • Reply to Enfranchising from a company I'm already a member of.
                                by Andrea Cunningham
                                As I said right at the beginning, there are some very sound reasons to do this which I wasn't going to go into. Suffice it to say that the current situation is one where the building I live in suffers under the tyranny of the majority of the larger building. So what is being sought is genuine control...
                                25-01-2022, 20:24 PM
                              • Enfranchising from a company I'm already a member of.
                                by Andrea Cunningham
                                The estate I live on has 2 blocks. All the leaseholders are members of the company which owns the freehold and manages the block ("Share of freehold").

                                Suppose one of the 2 blocks decides to go it alone - so in other words gain the freehold from a company they are already a member...
                                04-10-2021, 12:07 PM
                              • Reply to Enfranchising from a company I'm already a member of.
                                by Andrea Cunningham
                                There is already no ground rent collected - so as I understand it the value of the freehold might be quite low anyway.

                                If this is all done by negotiation then it is a moot point regardless, and it brings me back to what I was actually asking about, which is how to fairly and equitably split...
                                25-01-2022, 20:10 PM
                              Working...
                              X