Windows not cleaned for 12months but we've been charged

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  • ram
    replied
    Originally posted by Emielou5 View Post
    We agreed new specifications and scheduling and
    selected service providers. The Managing Agent has been informed.
    Glad to hear you "are in control"

    Just remember, ----- "in my opinion" and from experience, managing agents
    ( my area )do not get off their backsides and visit the property to see if a good job
    was done,or have the "engineering / building" experience to know if a good job was
    done.
    A lot of it is common sense, but Britain suffers from a lack of common sense in people
    nowadays, and common sense does not magically come with qualifications in Management
    or a high wage.

    Know also, that the fees charged do not cover extensive management, even though their
    contract looks impressive. Here £ 100 to £ 180 per year per flat gets you minimal
    management.

    At present, due to extensive maintenance required, and recently it was a full time jobI am
    paid for a number of flats, to look after the property, , but if you relate the total cost of flats
    to an hourly wage, then I get 30 pence per hour.

    ( 6 flats at £ 120 per year each . working 47 weeks, 5 days per week, 8 hours a day )
    Yes I know, some days there is nothong to do, but if you get my drift that for a block of
    6 flats the management receives 30 pence an hour. If you include weekends, and evening
    calls etc, it comes down to 20 pence an hour, So you don't get much from
    a Managing agent for that sort of money !

    So the more you can do, the better.

    My duties are extensive, demanding, and soul destroying sometimes, and you will be subject to
    those if you need to check on your managing agents - current or proposed.

    At least you have taken control, and the Manging agent knows if they fail, you will dispence with
    their services, but don't forget also, that things they may have to do that is not part of the
    contract, they can charge you £ 60 per hour ( Cos 30p per hour wont cover everything )

    R.a.M

    Leave a comment:


  • leaseholdanswers
    replied
    Originally posted by Emielou5 View Post
    Hi All

    Just checking in again with an update as you were all so helpful.
    Well glad to hear it.

    My one word of caution is that before you switch, remember "the devil you know".

    Perhaps part of the problem was the lack of understanding of the relationship.

    Leave a comment:


  • Emielou5
    replied
    Hi All

    Just checking in again with an update as you were all so helpful.
    We now have 3 new Directors (including me) and we recently held a meeting (invitations sent, notice provided, minutes sent etc) to discuss services such as window cleaning and interiors cleaning. We agreed new specifications and scheduling and selected service providers. The Managing Agent has been informed. The savings we have made are already significant with just a few changes to scheduling (in-line with leases).

    Although we are not satisfied that the existing managing agent has fulfilled their contractual obligations with regards to supervision of work we are remaining with our existing managing agent until the contract ends in Anugust at which time we will be moving to a new provider. In the meantime we are keeping relations with the agent amicable as we are just happy to have reduced costs whilst improving standards.

    What was particularly interesting was that the existing Directors had no idea that the Managing Agent only had the power to undertake expenditure on our approval, they thought that the agent was in control rather than was paid by the Management Company to provide agreed services under a contract.

    Thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • Emielou5
    replied
    Originally posted by leaseholdanswers View Post
    Be very careful any limited company is bound by their contracts in this case leases and the law that controls them.

    Experienced directors often fail to understand that. It is essential that you purchase the RICS code and http://www.arma.org.uk/public/h/dvd_cdrom, as service charge expenses.

    And check back here tell all your friends!
    Thanks so much.

    Leave a comment:


  • Emielou5
    replied
    Your "rantings" are valued and I am very grateful for them, if only the Directors who have been in position had been on here and learnt about their responsibilities before taking up position, then we wouldn't be in this pickle. Thank you for the advice and the well wishing, I'm sure I'll be back for more advice, as I appreciate that running a business is very different from what I am about to undertake. We're not 'going it alone' by any means, the agent we hope to move to is very experienced and has a great reputation. Thanks again

    Originally posted by ram View Post
    Glad to hear that, but I hope you will excuse my "rantings", as I see so many on here that take on more than they can handle.
    If you know the ins and outs, then my rantings will be excused wont they.

    With the exception of the agents on here, I find in my area, that estate agents/ letting agents think THEY own the property, and they can drive onto your property and park in your paking space, block your garage any time day or night. etc. etc. etc.

    I have successfully sued the biggest estate agents in the country, and have 3 more claims to make on the same one, as i do not accept "in full and final settlement, for this and any future claims" from anyone, so we can sue them again !

    Good luck in getting your property back on track.

    R.a.M.

    My Text does not proceed beyond this line, as this new V4 site cuts off
    text on screen and makes it impossible on some pages to read the post,
    so I keep mine up to here ____________________________________|
    ( The site is NOT P.C. compatable )

    Leave a comment:


  • leaseholdanswers
    replied
    Originally posted by Emielou5 View Post
    Hi Ram, thanks for the advice. I will proceed as recommended.
    Re. us not knowing about the funds etc, myself and the other 2 new Directors only became Directors a matter of days ago and we did so because the existing Directors did not have a handle on the affairs of the Company at all. I am a Director of another ltd company and therefore am very familiar with the resposnibilities.
    Be very careful any limited company is bound by their contracts in this case leases and the law that controls them.

    Experienced directors often fail to understand that. It is essential that you purchase the RICS code and http://www.arma.org.uk/public/h/dvd_cdrom, as service charge expenses.

    And check back here tell all your friends!

    Leave a comment:


  • ram
    replied
    Originally posted by Emielou5 View Post
    I am a Director of another ltd company and therefoream very familiar with the resposnibilities.
    Glad to hear that, but I hope you will excuse my "rantings", as I see so many on here that take on more than they can handle.
    If you know the ins and outs, then my rantings will be excused wont they.

    With the exception of the agents on here, I find in my area, that estate agents/ letting agents think THEY own the property, and they can drive onto your property and park in your paking space, block your garage any time day or night. etc. etc. etc.

    I have successfully sued the biggest estate agents in the country, and have 3 more claims to make on the same one, as i do not accept "in full and final settlement, for this and any future claims" from anyone, so we can sue them again !

    Good luck in getting your property back on track.

    R.a.M.

    My Text does not proceed beyond this line, as this new V4 site cuts off
    text on screen and makes it impossible on some pages to read the post,
    so I keep mine up to here ____________________________________|
    ( The site is NOT P.C. compatable )

    Leave a comment:


  • Emielou5
    replied
    Hi Ram, thanks for the advice. I will proceed as recommended.
    Re. us not knowing about the funds etc, myself and the other 2 new Directors only became Directors a matter of days ago and we did so because the existing Directors did not have a handle on the affairs of the Company at all. I am a Director of another ltd company and therefore am very familiar with the resposnibilities.

    Leave a comment:


  • ram
    replied
    P.s.

    continuing from above --

    You say "but thought this was because the 'Company' had no funds".

    Why, as directors of a company, do you not know how much money
    is in the bank ? ? ? ? and how much you have available for repairs.

    The law states, If there is a problem with the property, it is ultimatley
    the directors that are at fault on any problems, and not any agent.

    "The directors are responsible for keeping adequate accounting records
    that are sufficient to show and explain the parent Company's transactions and disclose with reasonable accuracy at any time, the financial position of the Company and enable them to ensure that its financial statements comply with the Companies Act 2006"

    Give me a call, as you may need some advice, before you self manage
    or pass on to another agent.
    Last edited by ram; 09-03-2011, 14:19 PM. Reason: second Sentence added

    Leave a comment:


  • ram
    replied
    Originally posted by Emielou5 View Post
    Thanks. I am one of 3 new Directors .
    Note. The Managing agents are YOUR employees, be it sub-contracted.
    You employ them to act on your behalf, and they are acountable to YOU.

    You TELL them that the windows have not been cleaned, and 2 or 3 others verify this, so tell them to contact the window cleaning services and ask why the windows wer not cleaned.
    No need for signatures of all connected. They have to sort out the anomaly, not you.

    However, if the accounts were a forward estimate, and the window cleaners were not paid, because they did not clean, then the funds
    have not been taken out of the account.

    If you are saying the agent paid for cleaning every month, tell them they have been subject to fraud, and as it is them that has been subject to fraud, then it is they that carry the cost of investigating that fraud on them.

    You can easily go and see the receipts for window cleaning, ( your right ) get copies, and phone the window cleaners to say you want some money back.

    The Managing agents don't argue with you,-- you argue with them, as they are accountable to you, and not the other way round.

    You say "include this in a letter to be signed by the residents."
    NO, one letter only, saying "The Directors of the company are not happy- etc. etc, etc. or " On behalf of a majority of the Directors"
    ( assume 3 out of 5 ) and sign, Director empowered in this matter.
    You are in control -- Not the agent in this matter.

    The Directors of a Company run the company, not the agent
    (Yes, you give power to the agent to make the decisions for you,
    in absence )

    I'l ring them up for you ( i will be as nice as pie ) to get the situation moving, and a conclusion to the problem.
    ( They wont recognise 5 different directors voices, so they wont recognise mine, )


    R.a.M.

    My Text does not proceed beyond this line, as this new V4 site cuts off
    text on screen and makes it impossible on some pages to read the post,
    so I keep mine up to here ____________________________________|

    ____________________ _____________________________________|

    Leave a comment:


  • Emielou5
    replied
    Originally posted by leaseholdanswers View Post
    I am sure that you neighbours noticed to get them to sign a petition.

    Your resident directors should be taking this up for you as they are paying for undelivered services as well.
    Thanks. I am one of 3 new Directors who took up the posts this month because the existing 2 Directors let their properties out and have not been managing our agent.
    We have also been charged £250 for power washing, we have 3 other quotes for £80! We will include this in a letter to be signed by the residents.

    Leave a comment:


  • leaseholdanswers
    replied
    Originally posted by Emielou5 View Post
    Great, I am concerned that the Agent will simply say they were cleaned and the dirt is one month old, we do have photos, but dirt doesn't really show up that well. Will we need some sort of independant testimony that the windows can not have been cleaned for 12months, or should photos be sufficient?
    Will all Directors have to sign the letter, or just the ones living in the building? The other 2 directors are difficult to get hold of.
    I am sure that you neighbours noticed to get them to sign a petition.

    Your resident directors should be taking this up for you as they are paying for undelivered services as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Emielou5
    replied
    Great, I am concerned that the Agent will simply say they were cleaned and the dirt is one month old, we do have photos, but dirt doesn't really show up that well. Will we need some sort of independant testimony that the windows can not have been cleaned for 12months, or should photos be sufficient?
    Will all Directors have to sign the letter, or just the ones living in the building? The other 2 directors are difficult to get hold of.

    Leave a comment:


  • leaseholdanswers
    replied
    Originally posted by Emielou5 View Post
    The accounts show the money was spent on a monthly window clean and is budgeted for a monthly clean. I take the point about non-payment, and that is why we didn't complain about them not been cleaned. I diidn't think for a moment that the agent was still paying the contractot.
    The lease is for communal and resident windows. The quotes were for the same.
    Well thats good news - if the accounts show that they were cleaned, and you have documented that they have not, take a look at similar issues and as a group write to the agents and explain giving the the opportunity to comment and then apply to the LVT.

    Complaining is not relevant as the agent by inspection should verify that services are being provided and that the invoices they have paid reflect a service or good provided. They are trustees of the service charge money...

    If the accounts show that they were paid then surely the agent was paying them...

    Leave a comment:


  • Emielou5
    replied
    Originally posted by leaseholdanswers View Post
    One last point, is the budget for cleaning your windows, or at prsent ony for cimmunal windows? Perhaps the new quotes are for an additional service that has not been included in the budget. Have you checked your lease to see if your windows being cleaned are a service charge expense, they are often yours to clean.
    The accounts show the money was spent on a monthly window clean and is budgeted for a monthly clean. I take the point about non-payment, and that is why we didn't complain about them not been cleaned. I diidn't think for a moment that the agent was still paying the contractot.
    The lease is for communal and resident windows. The quotes were for the same.

    Leave a comment:

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