LTA 1985 s.21- definitive text

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    #16
    Originally posted by leaseholder001 View Post
    You appear to be confusing s21B(2) with s21. This is specific to form and content of the summary of rights and obligations which can be updated by the Secretary of State.

    Are you sure s21A is in force?

    Jeffrey, please help!
    No I am not confusing this at all! So let me restate.

    The summary is an example of a regulation, it is made under section 21B. None have been made under Section 21 ( no a b or 1's in brackets).

    The wording "the SoS shall" was as posted, as explanation to your question about regulations and SI- it regularly appears; section 21b (2) is an instance of that....

    As to your question
    Originally posted by leaseholder001 View Post
    Are you sure s21 allows for regulations to be made?
    Quote "Service charge information Section 21

    (1)The appropriate national authority may make regulations about the provision, by landlords of dwellings to each tenant by whom service charges are payable, of information about service charges.

    (2)The regulations must, subject to any exceptions provided for in the regulations, require the landlord to provide information about—"

    and for the remaining 10 (x) regulation is mentioned 7 times......"
    Based on the information posted, I offer my thoughts.Any action you then take is your liability. While commending individual effort, there is no substitute for a thorough review of documents and facts by paid for professional advisers.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by leaseholdanswers View Post
      No I am not confusing this at all!
      Then why are you referring to the proposed s21 rather than the "in force" legislation?
      Use advice/information provided on a public forum at your own risk. If you wish to act with minimal risk then consult a lawyer.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by leaseholder001 View Post
        Then why are you referring to the proposed s21 rather than the "in force" legislation?
        I agree. The last four paragraphs of post #16 are simply inaccurate, as the law stands.
        They derive from the 2008-revised version of s.21 [= edition 7!], not in force.
        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
          I agree. The last four paragraphs of post #16 are simply inaccurate, as the law stands.
          They derive from the 2008-revised version of s.21 [= edition 7!], not in force.
          Thanks for clarification.

          In regard to s21A, I see that there are two versions:

          26/07/2002

          1/12/2008

          Do you know if either are in force?

          My own feeling is that, because s21A doesn't confer power to make regulations, then effectively s21A is not in force. However I'm not confident as it seems quite complicated and I could easily have missed something.
          Use advice/information provided on a public forum at your own risk. If you wish to act with minimal risk then consult a lawyer.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by leaseholder001 View Post
            In regard to s21A**, I see that there are two versions:

            26/07/2002

            1/12/2008

            Do you know if either are in force?
            ** You mean s.21!
            Neither is. The current version of s.21 (ed. 5) reflects only the amendments in 1986/1987/1989/1996.

            Originally posted by leaseholder001 View Post
            My own feeling is that, because s21A doesn't confer power to make regulations, then effectively s21A is not in force. However I'm not confident as it seems quite complicated and I could easily have missed something.
            You're right. Section 21A is not substantively in force.
            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

            Comment


              #21
              Thanks Jeffrey
              Use advice/information provided on a public forum at your own risk. If you wish to act with minimal risk then consult a lawyer.

              Comment


                #22
                Section 21 Sub Section 6

                Hi All,

                Wonder if I can get some advice. I found the excellent definitive text that Jeffrey posted at the beginning of this thread in relation to Section 21 but remain perplexed that subsection 6 on the legislation.gov site here:
                http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...?timeline=true

                It's the official website but not the same as the text pasted below.
                Jeffrey, would be great to here from you on this, apologies if this is an obvious question, I'm quite new to all this.

                Thanks a lot,
                TC.

                (6) If the service charges in relation to which the costs are relevant costs as mentioned in subsection (1) are payable by the tenants of more than four dwellings, the summary shall be certified by a qualified accountant as:
                (a) in his opinion a fair summary complying with the requirements of subsection (5), and
                (b) being sufficiently supported by accounts, receipts and other documents which have been produced to him

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by TaxiCab View Post
                  Hi All,

                  Wonder if I can get some advice. I found the excellent definitive text that Jeffrey posted at the beginning of this thread in relation to Section 21 but remain perplexed that subsection 6 on the legislation.gov site here:
                  http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...?timeline=true

                  It's the official website but not the same as the text pasted below.
                  Jeffrey, would be great to here from you on this, apologies if this is an obvious question, I'm quite new to all this.

                  Thanks a lot,
                  TC.

                  (6) If the service charges in relation to which the costs are relevant costs as mentioned in subsection (1) are payable by the tenants of more than four dwellings, the summary shall be certified by a qualified accountant as:
                  (a) in his opinion a fair summary complying with the requirements of subsection (5), and
                  (b) being sufficiently supported by accounts, receipts and other documents which have been produced to him
                  Hi TaxiCab,

                  I don't think Jeffrey posts here any more.

                  The link you give is to another subsection - s21A.

                  The text Jeffrey has put together is the current "in force" s21 legislation. Sometimes the legislation.gov.uk website contains law that is not yet in force.
                  Use advice/information provided on a public forum at your own risk. If you wish to act with minimal risk then consult a lawyer.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Yep, the law is rather a mess, in my case at an LVT, the tribunal deciding that the freeholder could charge for an accountant to audit the service charge despite there being no strict provision for this within the lease and there only being 2 flats, they also appeared to look toward the future proposed wording of S21 where the four flat part is removed, even quoting (wrongly in my opinion) that "parliament clearly think so" refering that every leasehold property has audited accounts, although it is now widely accepted that the proposed changes to S21 will not be bought in force.

                    Andy
                    Advice given is based on my experience representing myself as a leaseholder both in the County Court and at Leasehold Valuation Tribunals.

                    I do not accept any liability to you in relation to the advice given.

                    It is always recommended you seek further advice from a solicitor or legal expert.

                    Always read your lease first, it is the legally binding contract between leaseholder and freeholder.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      How odd. Parliament clearly didn't think so when it passed the current s21 or they wouldn't have later considered changing it. They should have had in mind what parliament thought then, not what it may or may not think now.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Well clearly parliament used to think that it should not, unless more than 4, then though that it should and now clearly has changed its mind but decided not to issue an commencement order.

                        As there is no may about it, I agree that they can only work within the law and the acop, and an interpretation of the lease before them.
                        Based on the information posted, I offer my thoughts.Any action you then take is your liability. While commending individual effort, there is no substitute for a thorough review of documents and facts by paid for professional advisers.

                        Comment

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