Section 146 Notice

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  • Section 146 Notice

    Hi all
    I wonder if you can help me.
    I'm a landlord for a block of flats and have one particular lessee who has paid no ground rent, insurance or sinking fund contributions for the last few years.
    I've chased and chased, written to his mortgage provider but haven't got anywhere. No correspondance has ever been received.

    Suddenly we have received a letter from his mortgage company asking for details of outstanding amounts. We did this but they have written back asking for a Notice of demand for the ground rent to be issued and also a Section 146 notice fo the outstanding service charges.

    First of all - my solicitors fee's have been quoted for doing this for me and are huge so I need to do it myself

    Secondly - where can I get a standard form to be able to issue these?
    Looking through this forum it seems that a valid section 146 notice needs to have the customers agreement or admission of the charges. I am not likely to get this at all... any ideas and plain english on what this means?

    Thank you

  • #2
    First, have you even submitted valid demands for:
    a. ground rent [s.166 of 2002 Act]; and
    b. service charge [s.18-s.30 of LTA 1985]?
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


    • #3
      the S166 - is that different from the Notice of Demand for the ground rent that they have asked for?
      As for the service charge s.18-s.30 of LTA, no-one has mentioned this to me yet.

      in essence - no, none have been issued yet

      Comment


      • #4
        As you've not validly demanded anything, you cannot serve a s.146 Notice nor lodge any proceedings. Your lessee knows more than you do.
        Er, how much do you understand the role and responsibilities of a freehold reversioner? I think that you need an urgent learning experience.
        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bexn View Post
          the S166 - is that different from the Notice of Demand for the ground rent that they have asked for?
          As for the service charge s.18-s.30 of LTA, no-one has mentioned this to me yet.

          in essence - no, none have been issued yet
          As Jeffrey has pointed out, your knowledge in this area does seem somewhat lacking, if I was your tenant I probably wouldnt be paying you anything either, as you have failed to comply with current law, you may well get a shock too if you try and recover costs from more than 18 months ago.

          Andy
          Advice given is based on my experience representing myself as a leaseholder both in the County Court and at Leasehold Valuation Tribunals.

          I do not accept any liability to you in relation to the advice given.

          It is always recommended you seek further advice from a solicitor or legal expert.

          Always read your lease first, it is the legally binding contract between leaseholder and freeholder.

          Comment


          • #6
            Better head on over to lease advisory service and do some reading...
            I am not a solicitor, I am a lessee/shareholder in conflict with the management. Please seek your own legal advice before relying on my comments in this forum!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
              First, have you even submitted valid demands for:
              a. ground rent [s.166 of 2002 Act]; and
              b. service charge [s.18-s.30 of LTA 1985]?
              Going back to this comment.... trying to research the LTA 1985 i've come across this.... The Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 refers to all short leases for residential property and tenancies agreed for a period of less than seven years i.e. Assured Shorthold Tenancies. Short leases cover periodic tenancies where the tenant has no fixed term agreement but rents the property on a weekly or monthly basis.

              The person responsible for paying a service charge and the ground rent 'owns' the property, he has a lease with us for the ground area and the sinking fund/management company.

              Does this valid demand count/appropriate for this situation?......

              as for the other comments on my lack of knowledge.. thanks, not helping!

              Comment


              • #8
                No-one is yet responsible for paying a service charge and the ground rent, as you seem not to have complied with legal requirements.
                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                Comment


                • #9
                  sorry, i'm still not understanding this fully.
                  Why is he not responsible for paying the ground rent and service charges? (these are mentioned in his lease and he would have been aware of them when he brought the property).

                  By sending him invoices each year with all the correct information on them and him not paying them, where have I not complied legally?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    (Sigh) Please re-read posts #2/3.
                    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      dear ben

                      I think wot our learned friend jeffrey is saying is that if your requests for payment are not in proscribed form then strictly speaking then are not yet payable, irrespective of whether the statutory obligation to use proscribed form came in after the lease was granted!

                      This was designed to prevent lessees being charged moneys unnecessarily by unscrupulous freeholders.

                      Ironically, the cost of producing these various notices are in practice almost certainly recoverable from the leaseholders and thus the legislation as is so often the case has achieved in many cases at least precisely the opposite effect of the intention!

                      Advice : take all your receipts invoices copy leases etc and appoint a competent managing agent and tell him to collect the service charges and do all things necessary such that outgoings are recoverable and rents are paid.

                      Your most important function as landlord, arguably, is to make sure the buildings remain insured.

                      In the good old days, when lessees were selling or remortgaging every few years there would be a convenient opportunity to collect your arrears as a freeholder at each dealing in the lease as the account had to be cleared. But with the volume of transactions down it can be a longer wait!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        'Prescribed'!
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Bexn.

                          One must ask how you came to be a landlord without having any knowledge of the Landlord & Tenant Act, this act has been considerably tightened up in recent years mainly as a result of unscupulous landlords and a landlord must be very careful to follow the exact procedures otherwise they may find themselves seriously out of pocket.

                          As pointed out you (and your tenant) have to comply with both the lease and statute law, so you must keep yourself (or employ someone) upto date with statute law (and the numerous changes).

                          For example..the points mentioned by Jeffrey (and others)

                          S166. If this isn't complied with, the lessee may withhold payment of ground rent.

                          The same applies to S21B regarding Service Charges.

                          Some landlords have got themselves in a right mess but spending thousands on building works only later to discover they havn't complied with S20 consultation notices and that they cannot recover the large amounts they have spent.

                          I personally am disputing many hundreds of pounds that my landlord is demanding and they are a large company with lots of experience and money to spend on surveyors and solicitors, although they too have got it wrong.



                          Andy
                          Advice given is based on my experience representing myself as a leaseholder both in the County Court and at Leasehold Valuation Tribunals.

                          I do not accept any liability to you in relation to the advice given.

                          It is always recommended you seek further advice from a solicitor or legal expert.

                          Always read your lease first, it is the legally binding contract between leaseholder and freeholder.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Andydd and quarterday, thank you for your responses, it has helped.
                            A little back ground information, the company I work for built the buildings and had previously employed a managing agent, when I discovered that he was hammering down doors in the middle of the night, verbally abusive to my shop tenants and the owners of the flats I immediately fired him and have since been left with the running, hence my limited knowledge.
                            I totally agree to find another managing agent but was concerned I could be on a tight time limit as it’s a mortgage company that’s asked for these notices, they wont give info on why they want them, I can only assume he’s trying to re-mortgage or he’s defaulting.

                            Thanks for the comments again guys, I shall research more and find myself a new agent.

                            Quick note to Jeffrey, some constructive comments and help is all I asked for, not ‘sigh’ remarks and definitely not petty spelling correction posts!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bexn View Post
                              Quick note to Jeffrey, some constructive comments and help is all I asked for, not ‘sigh’ remarks and definitely not petty spelling correction posts!
                              I'll take that as a 'thank-you', shall I, since you don't bother with such courtesies?
                              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                              Comment

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