Rights of the Managing company in personal tenant disputes and arguments.

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  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    Originally posted by FAQthis View Post

    The exact wording is

    Under 'Rights granted with the property' (The property being the Flat)

    'The right to enjoy the Grounds subject to any regulations imposed by the Managers'

    'Grounds' is not defined for the purpose of the Lease.

    I'd be intersted to know if this taken literally means the Managers have the right to make any regulations about the grounds as they see fit?
    That is a lot clearer.

    If "Grounds" is not defined it has to have its ordinary meaning, that is enclosed open land surrounding a building.

    The Managers have a discretion as to what regulations they make, but I think it is implicit that the regulations have to be reasonable and are connected to the use of the grounds. No rule should significantly cut down the right. A rule not to engage in disputes does not I think have sufficient connectedness to the use of the grounds. A rule not to light barbecues or have parties does.

    I do not see any reason why an existing rule cannot be revoked or amended and new rules added from time to time.

    Who can actually make the decisions has to depend on what the constitution of the company says.

    Leave a comment:


  • FAQthis
    replied
    Ha, you obviously haven't spent much time in Wales.. There are blocks of flats here that are strictly vegetarian, or for Women only for example. To return to the original point. Can the mangers use this right to add a regulation that makes the whole property governed by a 'safe space' policy, wherein arguments are essentially banned, as like bbq's in your case.. becacuse they are a nuisance. And if so does this policy need to be agreed by all members collectively, or by a majority Director vote only?

    Leave a comment:


  • ram
    replied
    Ps to post number 15, as 14 was not posTed when I looked 8 minutes before.

    Don't be silly, you can eat what you like in your own flat and "The grounds"

    TELL US WHAT THE PROBLEM IS.

    Leave a comment:


  • ram
    replied
    You are deviating from the original question
    My reply was "As no one heard anything, then you have no idea what the problem is ?"

    The "Grounds! comprise of everythng a leaseholder did not buy into.
    Gardens - if not demised. The Driveway,. Boundary walls, fences, gates, roof, external walls of the property., outside drain pipes from each flat and gutters,

    The freeholder can make any regulations regarding the grounds if it is for the "Good of the company" / for the benefit of residents / On health and safety grounds etc
    Our lease states the Freeholder may make / change any rules and regulations as per above,
    Such as, No BBQ's allowed any more in the gardens.( cos people don't clear up after themselves, and leave tomato sauce and onion in the grass ) No ball games.

    The Grounds do not belong to the leaseholders, nor are they leased to the flat leaseholders, but belong to the freeholder who has given permission to use said "parts" of the grounds and to observe the freeholders regulations, whice as it's the freeholders, can change. But within reason, as stated.

    Until you tell us what the problem is , we cant advise to suit your problem. And this will just become an on line course on Leasehold management.

    Leave a comment:


  • FAQthis
    replied
    Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post

    Is "the lands" defined in the lease?
    And therefore if a person buys a Lease on a property alongwith the original Lease regulations.. Are those regulations and all of the Lease wording fixed and unchangable throughout the period of that lease?. It would seem that either the wording is either unchangable by law or that it can be altered by the managers at any point, but only for all Leaseholders at the same time surely? And if the wording can be changed, with what limits? What if a decision is agreed such as no meat can be eaten on the premise, etc?

    Leave a comment:


  • FAQthis
    replied
    Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post

    Is "the lands" defined in the lease?
    The exact wording is

    Under 'Rights granted with the property' (The property being the Flat)

    'The right to enjoy the Grounds subject to any regulations imposed by the Managers'

    'Grounds' is not defined for the purpose of the Lease.

    I'd be intersted to know if this taken literally means the Managers have the right to make any regulations about the grounds as they see fit?

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    Originally posted by FAQthis View Post

    How do you mean? That is how it is written in the Lease
    Is "the lands" defined in the lease?

    Leave a comment:


  • FAQthis
    replied
    Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post

    What?! Is that unqualified?
    How do you mean? That is how it is written in the Lease

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    Originally posted by FAQthis View Post

    Tenants have

    'The right to enjoy the lands subject to any conditions stated by the managers'
    What?! Is that unqualified?

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    Originally posted by FAQthis View Post

    So what is the specific meaning?
    Occupy and otherwise benefit from.

    Leave a comment:


  • ram
    replied
    Originally posted by FAQthis View Post
    So what is the specific meaning?
    see https://www.kdllaw.com/legal-updates...t-does-it-mean

    but worth reading the whole web page, but in brief - enjoyment

    What is “Quiet Enjoyment”

    This covenant is often wrongly thought to mean that the landlord must ensure that the property is quiet. It equally does not mean that the landlord has to somehow ensure that the tenants must be able to enjoy themselves - although wouldn’t that be good?

    In short, it means that the tenant must be able to ‘enjoy’ (i.e. live/occupy) the property without interruption from the landlord (or his agent) and therefore rarely has anything to do with noise.




    Leave a comment:


  • FAQthis
    replied
    Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post

    The word "enjoy" in the context of a lease does not mean that which you might imagine it to mean. It has a very specific meaning which has nothing much to do with actual enjoyment.
    So what is the specific meaning?

    Leave a comment:


  • AndrewDod
    replied
    Originally posted by FAQthis View Post
    'The right to enjoy the lands subject to any conditions stated by the managers'
    The word "enjoy" in the context of a lease does not mean that which you might imagine it to mean. It has a very specific meaning which has nothing much to do with actual enjoyment.

    Leave a comment:


  • ram
    replied
    I would not get involved between leaseholders personal problems, as you may alienate yourselves.

    As no one heard anything, then you have no idea what the problem is ?

    If you write a letter, which I suggest you don't, and a reply comes back "I called him a Fat pig,,,so what Mr. Lar de dar" Therefore there is nothing you can do.


    You "may" write a letter to ALL leaseholders, A generic letter, to "reaffirm" that the Managemment company is always available if anyone wishes to discuss the lease or other problems that my crop up from time to time. Call Mr / Mrs xxx on 01-----xxxx ( Co. Sec / Director )


    That's all you can do. Short and sweet.....letter to all




    Leave a comment:


  • FAQthis
    replied
    Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post
    Depends entirely what the argument was about. Maybe give us a clue. From the sounds of what you say some aspect of the lease is being disobeyed.
    The case is of two neighbours in a personal conflict. But, the argument has taken place in private, so to speak, meaning no other tenants heard or saw anything. It is clearly an ongoing conflict which has effected the enjoyment of the property for all.

    THE LEASE STATES

    'not to use the property, or any part of it, for any of the following, nor allow anyone else to do so . -

    activities which are dangerous, offensive, noxious, noisome, illegal or immoral. or which may become a nuisance or annoyance to the landlord or neighbour'

    And

    Tenants have

    'The right to enjoy the lands subject to any conditions stated by the managers'

    Does even a personal agument warrent a warning letter from the company? The point being that even private disputes on company property can affect other tenants right to a peaceful life. However the Lease is not specific to that effect. Is their a standard procedure in these cases?

    Leave a comment:

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