ICO Letter Right to manage company

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    ICO Letter Right to manage company

    Hi,

    Quick question please. Our RTM company has just received the Data protection fee demand from the ICO.

    I'm presuming we need to pay this?

    We don't hold any. customers data.

    We do most of the work ourselves but obviously need to employ someone at some stage eg: paint the house etc.

    We don't have cctv or electronically store data.

    Thank you

    #2
    Hello,

    It is difficult for someone else to know what data you collect and store, so as to then be able to advise you on whether you need to comply with the Data Protection Act/GDPR, and in turn be required to register with the ICO. However, the ICO obviously believes that the business of your company would cause you to collect and store data that requires you to register with them. Your job is to do an audit of what data you collect and store and ensure that you are dealing with it in line with the GDPR (see the ICO website for training).

    I would think that you collect and store leaseholder's name, address and contact details. If you are collecting this information then yes, it would require you to comply with the GDPR for this data and therefore register with the ICO. You would then need to think about how you keep this information secure, how long you keep this data for (eg. once they are no longer a leaseholder, when you can delete it) and put this information into a privacy policy that you then provide to the leaseholders. I've just given you some pointers here as this isn't all - the ICO has more details on the GDPR on their website.

    Please note that compliance with the GDPR also applies to paper records, not just electronically.

    You can contact the ICO by telephone if you would like to speak to an adviser (they won't ask you for any personal details).

    Hope this helps.

    Comment


      #3
      Thank you for the reply.

      Well the one of the main questions on the site was 'do we store electronic records' and if we didn't it sent me to the no need to register area.

      Cheers

      Comment


        #4
        I see that, yes, which I am surprised about, given that the GDPR applies to (or to be) "organised" paper records. I am imagining that your paper records are not disorganised and therefore do fall under the GDPR.

        Please have a read of this solicitor's blog (which I just pulled from a google search): https://www.bclplaw.com/en-GB/insigh...pply-to-1.html

        Given that you have been sent a letter from the ICO, personally, I would telephone the ICO to clarify the position and take it from there. Try and be explicit about the explanation of your exact data storage circumstances to them.
        I would be interested to know the outcome.
        Last edited by ifallelsefails; 02-06-2021, 21:53 PM. Reason: Inserted: "I would be interested to know the outcome."

        Comment


          #5
          I'll give them a call. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by ifallelsefails View Post
            I see that, yes, which I am surprised about, given that the GDPR applies to (or to be) "organised" paper records. I am imagining that your paper records are not disorganised and therefore do fall under the GDPR.
            I have also had the same confusion.

            But the ICO guidance online is (I haven't checked today, to be fair) quite clear and they don't require registration unless you keep electronic records.
            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

            Comment


              #7
              I would just pay the £35 and be done, it's no great hardship.
              I can't imagine in 2021 the OP keeps no electronic data.
              What happens if there is an emergency ? Do you send out letters by snail mail to say there's water flooding through the ceiling ??

              Comment


                #8
                Pretty much everyone keeps personal data electronically, it's whether it's done so for the purposes of your business.

                Your mobile phone keeps lists of numbers called and who have called you, and people usually use a contacts app to identify them.
                That's an organised database stored electronically.
                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                Comment


                  #9
                  Taken from the ICO website

                  Organisations that do not process personal information on a computer are exempt. You therefore do not have to pay a fee to the ICO

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I have just stated to ico.org.uk this month that 1 new leasehold properties will not be paying a fee, and that Nature of business (SIC)

                    • 98000 - Residents property management
                    do not have customers,. only shareholders who do not buy and sell products. Do not have websites or terminals that allow outsiders to access data of customers ( And we don't have customers ).
                    Yes Shareholder information is stored on 2 computers, but those are records of names , addresses and phone numbers only, and no sensitive info.
                    We are not a retail business either.

                    So no, no fee is payable.

                    Same with an other I manage ( Co. Sec )


                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by ram View Post
                      Yes Shareholder information is stored on 2 computers, but those are records of names , addresses and phone numbers only, and no sensitive info.
                      GDPR encompasses, names, addresses and phone numbers (as someone can identify the shareholders using that information) and you are storing this information on a computer. So I'm afraid that you are misinformed - you have to comply with the GDPR and because you are storing it on a computer, you have to pay a fee.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        ALL Property Management Companies have to pay the fee. even if you don't use a computer; according to ICO.org.uk.

                        Why have I changed my mind ?

                        Cos I spoke to ICO, who did not accept my arguments, that even if I stored leaseholders basic information not on a computer, but on a piece of paper on my desk, a fee is still payable they said, which to me is stupid.

                        I stated its just a record on a text document. They then said, well you have bank accounts of your leasholders which can be traced. No we don't I stated. Leaseholders pay into a bank account and we have no records of leaseholders bank accounts ( we issue credits for overpayments, and not cash )

                        therefore if leaseholder info is just stored on paper files, emails are are printed and put in their respective folders in a filing cabinet ( which you should do anyway ) then emails deleted, then in my mind - no computer records how ever sparten are kept, then no fee is payable.

                        My records will now be on paper and not on a computer. and will be on one sheet. and not paying a fee, a fee for which gives me no protection from anything or anyone.

                        So up to you what you do. But if remember, it's a £ 4000 fine if you don't pay.
                        Another rip off.


                        Comment


                          #13
                          P.S. It's a £ 4000 fine if you don't pay, meaning ( probably ) if you have not filled in the inline form they will tell you by letter ( probably ) that they are about to fine you as you should be paying, have not filled in the on line form, but if you fill in the form and pay, they will not fine you if you complete the form.

                          I filled in the online form, and am not required to pay the fee, due to above previous post conditions.

                          i've read the "actions" of the ICO, and its to make money, but also mainly to stop companires sending unsolicited commercial email ( which has it's own laws to prevent and fine without YOU paying any money.) contary to the customers requirements not to receive "offers". and mainly not offers directly associated with the services the customer signed up for.

                          Amex, ( American express credit card ) were fined £ 90,000 for sending out email flyers not connected with the services which the custemers were enroled in - but just offers about downloading an app to check things.

                          Freeholders are not going to email leaseholders, offers of special offers, buy one get one free. eetc etc.








                          Comment


                            #14
                            Love the idea of printing every email and putting them in a filing cabinet and deleting original. Lol.
                            I will have to change my footer to "Help kill the planet - please print this email"

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thank you for coming back to report your findings ram.

                              Originally posted by ram View Post
                              emails are are printed and put in their respective folders in a filing cabinet ( which you should do anyway ) then emails deleted,
                              I'm afraid that the GDPR also encompasses email communications. Your email provider is a "data processor" for you and you therefore require a "data processing agreement" in place with them.
                              The actual Legislation on exemptions to the ICO fee is here:
                              The Data Protection (Charges and Information) Regulations 2018 (legislation.gov.uk)
                              Schedule (2)(a) states:
                              The processing is—

                              (a)of personal data which is not being processed wholly or partly by automated means or recorded with the intention that it should be processed wholly or partly by automated means;
                              So receiving an email, printing it and then deleting it would still fall into processing it wholly or partly by automated means.
                              As you are attempting to be "paper only", you would need to cease using email and revert to using hand written notes and postal mail for your communications. Having thought about it, I think that you could still use a telephone, providing it is a simple telephone (eg. not a smartphone that uploads people's data to the cloud) and you are not running a telephone system in-house yourself, but using a telephone provider (which I believe is what the intention of the ICO Registration Self-assessment toolkit's question is about "call logging and recording systems").

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