Breach of leasehold terms with floor that's causing noise; who to enforce?

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Breach of leasehold terms with floor that's causing noise; who to enforce?

    My upstair's neighbour's lease requires him to provide "carpets, or such other suitable floor coverings", and it also has a "nuisance" clause. He has had his flat tiled. I am now being driven nuts by noise from above. Every movement results in impact noise transmission, and I'm going round the bend. Something as innocent as a chair being moved is torturing me, and so far as I can see, the tenant to whom my neighbour has sublet his flat is doing nothing unreasonable. (Carpets were required by the lease for a very good reason!)

    Both parties (me and the owner of the upstairs flat) are leaseholders, with a shared ownership housing association being the freeholder. There is also the added complication that the owner has sublet the flat, and there's a tenant in there.

    Does anyone know how I can get the terms of my neighbour's lease enforced? Legally, who, or what, can compel my tenant to remove the tiles again? What obliges the freeholder to do anything? (To date, the freeholder (i.e. the housing association) has done nothing, despite my requests.) The leaseholder of the flat now lives in America and is ignoring my messages, so I really need to understand what the responsibilities of both the freeholder housing association AND the leaseholder.

    Any insights would be truly welcomed!

    I suggest that you read the terms of your lease.

    Does it state the floors must be carpeted ? or you are entitle to quiet enjoyment in your flat ?

    I would recommend that you visit the local Magistrates Court and ask the court manager if to you can make an application to the Court for :

    Order on the Housing Association to enter the flat and install carpet over the tiled areas in the lounge and bedroom? and charge the cost to leaseholder of the flat ?


      Under the lease, there are three possibilities:

      1. The relevant covenants in the lease are expressed to be not only with the landlord but also with the other leaseholders. If that is the case you can personally take action against the leaseholder, but not against the subtenant.

      2. The lease contains a clause which enables you to require the landlord to take action against any leaseholder in breach of covenant. However, such clauses are usually accompanied by a requirement that the leaseholder indemnifies the landlord in respect of any costs. You are going to have difficulty persuading the HA to take action.

      3. None of the above applies.

      If 3 is the case, and indeed in any event, there is the law of nuisance. First though, there be a nuisance. If, as you seem prepared to admit, the subtenant is doing no more than behaving normally, it I think it may be difficult to prove. When it comes to nuisance you have to sue the person causing the nuisance. Is it the leaseholder for not having carpets or the subtenant who is the one actually moving about?

      You are in the classic position of someone who has rights, but where enforcing them is difficult and time consuming and, above all, where you risk expense wholly disproportionate to any benefit which may be achieved.


        Tilled floors in flats should be banned ..........


          Originally posted by Neelix View Post
          Tilled floors in flats should be banned ..........
          Agreed. The solution is to increase the council tax!

          I should though mention that the flat I live in here in Spain is all tiles and no carpets which is the norm. I have lived in three different flats with a flat above and never had a problem with sound transmission through the floor above.


            I was doing an EICR on a flat yesterday. The floor had been taken up and put back in many places and wasn’t really secured down - so every other step made a noise. It’s going to be carpeted BUT the floor is still going to move.

            the people downstairs are not going to be very happy


              Thank you all very much for your replies. Lawcruncher , 2. applies. Why do you say I will have difficulty persuading the housing association to take action? I am prepared to pay their bills (bankrupting though they may be); surely the housing association has an obligation to enforce the terms of the lease, provided I do indemnify them for the legal fees... On what grounds could they legally refuse? Thanks so much for helping me understand this. I really am grateful.


                Not all housing associations are difficult to spur into action but some are; the same can of course be said about any landlord. Apart from the expense, suing is time consuming. The association may not have the resources. You have to persuade them you have a good case. Noise is difficult to prove and in this case there is the question of who you should sue. If you do get the landlord to sue you cannot chose the solicitor. In this type of case you can soon run up a bill for thousands. Solicitors holding themselves out as experts reckon they need £400 an hour and three hours to write a letter of more than three lines - I only exaggerate a bit.


                  Thanks so much, Lawcruncher . This is very helpful.


                  Latest Activity


                  • Flat entrance door - fire door compliance
                    by MrSoffit
                    Hi. Inspecting flat entrance doors has been a requirement since the 2005 Fire safety Order. The role of managing agents to inspect front doors is covered in appendices to the 2011 guidelines.

                    Should a managing agent have in-house expertise to carry out door inspections (required by an...
                    18-06-2021, 21:11 PM
                  • Reply to Flat entrance door - fire door compliance
                    by jrsteeve
                    Best practice is for the agent to appoint an external contractor to conduct an FRA and formal risk assessments. Checking for obvious damage to apartment doors would be completed during a standard site inspection by the agent. Any significant damage should then be followed up by a contractor assessment...
                    18-06-2021, 21:36 PM
                  • Reply to Handing back Right to Manage to Freeholder
                    by jrsteeve
                    Perhaps appoint a managing agent to take the stress away and deal with the difficult leaseholder?...
                    18-06-2021, 21:29 PM
                  • Handing back Right to Manage to Freeholder
                    by carolebrntt
                    An RTM was set up in 2005 of which I have been a Director ever since, and dealt with all the buildings requirements.
                    Including Insurance, maintenance and getting documents sent to Companies House. I’m now 73 and wish to sell my flat and move on, as the responsibility is now affecting my health....
                    17-06-2021, 09:53 AM
                  • Reply to External wall surveys - S20
                    by Samish
                    We are going to make an application to dispense under S20ZA out of caution, however I don't personally feel that it should be classed as 'works'. It is an inspection by a qualified individual. If an asbestos survey exceeded the S20 threshold, or a fire risk assessment, you might challenge the cost on...
                    18-06-2021, 15:17 PM
                  • External wall surveys - S20
                    by Samish
                    Hi there, sorry if this has been covered before but I was hoping to get peoples view on costs for external wall surveys and whether they are qualifying works under S20? Colleagues of mine think that we need to go through S20 consultation, however I'm of the opinion that, while expensive and invasive,...
                    17-06-2021, 15:41 PM
                  • Reply to How easy/difficult is it to set up a freehold management service?
                    by eagle2
                    We need some more information please. Are the leases directly between the freeholder and the leaseholders or is there an RMC involved?
                    A block of 5 flats can probably be managed by the leaseholders themselves, especially if you are all contributing and you all get along well. The problem is when...
                    18-06-2021, 15:17 PM
                  • How easy/difficult is it to set up a freehold management service?
                    by riva
                    I live in a share of freehold (block of 5 flats) and we are currently paying around 6k per flat for management/bills per annum. No concierge but there's a lift. It's an external management company that we outsource to. Thing is, I feel that they were coming up with rather expensive quotes and so I've...
                    17-06-2021, 09:09 AM
                  • Reply to ICO Data protection fee
                    by eagle2
                    There is a registration self assessment on the ICO web site. I suggest that you complete it and keep a copy if it states that you do not need to pay a registration fee....
                    18-06-2021, 14:40 PM
                  • ICO Data protection fee
                    by parklands
                    I have received a letter from ICO informing me that we need to pay a fee. Our managing agent says we must decide if we want to pay and offers no advice. Do other RMCs pay this?
                    17-06-2021, 22:00 PM