lease is registered but freehold is not?!

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    lease is registered but freehold is not?!

    I have a copy of the lease which is registered with the LR but the freeholder which is a limited company was dissolved in 2002. I don't know how or why the LR registered the lease without asking for a copy of the freehold title deeds.....

    Am I still able to serve a s42 to the landlord to extend the lease and ask the Tribunal to agree the premium or is the fact the freehold not registered going to stop this?

    Equally can 2 of the 3 leaseholders acquire the freehold from the Crown or again is the fact the freehold not registered going to stop this?

    Thanks

    #2
    When was the lease granted?

    Is your lease registered with good or absolute title?

    ​​​​​​​Has anyone been demanding rent or service charge or otherwise suggesting he is the landlord?

    The fact the freehold is not registered does not rule out serving a S42 notice.

    There is a procedure if the landlord is unknown: Leasehold Reform, Housing and Urban Development Act 1993 (legislation.gov.uk)

    Comment


      #3
      Details of the current freeholder can be obtained by purchase of freehpld title from Land Registry Online , You can pay £3 by credit card and download the information. If the freehold title is under Bona Vacantia, a group of leaseholder can write to the BV Solicitor and offer to buy the freehold title.

      Comment


        #4
        The lease was granted in 1987 for 99 years.

        Title is absolute.

        Lease is registered with land registry but no record of the freehold.

        There is no evidence of any landlord re service charge and ground rent. The landlord in the lease is a limited company dissolved in 2002.

        I am wondering if we serve a S42 to the limited company to extend the lease, can we get a vesting order to extend the lease even though we can price the original landlord is dissolved but we can't prove that the landlord on the lease is the current landlord because there is no freehold registration?

        Thanks

        Comment


          #5
          The advice guide given by LEASE for finding a missing freeholder is shown below..

          You or your group of leaseholders can place an advert for 3 consecutive weeks in the local town or borough newspaper to say you wish to obtain the current address of missing freeholder for serving legal notices.

          https://www.lease-advice.org/faq/i-a...t-should-i-do/

          Comment


            #6
            I think the Lease procedure relates to an individual not to a dissolved limited company as here.

            I guess the issue with an unregistered title is that whilst the dissolved freeholder never registered the title how will the Crown under Escheat know that unregistered freehold title has reverted to the Crown rather than that unregistered freehold title being now owned by another party which we don't know who that is because it's not registered?!

            Comment


              #7
              Is this a lease that you already own? If so, I would want to know why the solicitor who did the conveyancing didn't highlight the issue and explain any potential problems (assuming that a solicitor was used and didn't explain this).

              Comment


                #8
                Your leasehold title records at Land Registry would show the name of freeholder company which is dissolved. The Freehold title record at Land Registry should show the address of the freehold company c/o Crown Solicitor .

                https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/con...pany-dissolved

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Bengt Lagander View Post
                  The lease was granted in 1987 for 99 years.

                  Title is absolute.

                  Lease is registered with land registry but no record of the freehold.

                  There is no evidence of any landlord re service charge and ground rent. The landlord in the lease is a limited company dissolved in 2002.
                  In that case it looks like the freehold was unregistered in 1987. When the lease was granted the unregistered freehold title would have been deduced and produced to the Land Registry on registration of the lease. It if had not been produced the lease would not have been registered with absolute title.

                  Since unregistered titles are private there is no official way of discovering who the freeholder is. It cannot be assumed that the Crown is entitled to the freehold because the company may have sold it before being dissolved and before the area became subject to compulsory registration.

                  Originally posted by Bengt Lagander View Post
                  I am wondering if we serve a S42 to the limited company to extend the lease, can we get a vesting order to extend the lease even though we can price the original landlord is dissolved but we can't prove that the landlord on the lease is the current landlord because there is no freehold registration?
                  In view of the above and knowing that the landlord who granted the lease no longer exists, I think you are entitled to assume that the landlord is unknown and proceed accordingly as advised by LEASE.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    "In that case it looks like the freehold was unregistered in 1987. When the lease was granted the unregistered freehold title would have been deduced and produced to the Land Registry on registration of the lease. It if had not been produced the lease would not have been registered with absolute title."

                    Does this imply the Land Registry should have a copy of the freehold title?

                    If so, and the Land Registry have lost it is it tough?

                    I maybe wrongly assumed that since compulsory registration was 1990 countrywide that because the freehold mat have been unregistered pre 1967 (relevant date for Telford) that lease registration could take place in 1987 without Regis traction if the freehold because in 1987 only a sale of the freehold mat have been subject to compulsory registration. But think you are saying no registration of lease possible without freehold registration...?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      You could telephone the Land Registry for clarification. They are usually very helpful.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Perhaps you should visit the Land Registry Office ( serving your area ) and raise your problem with Customer Service Officer to check if any manual record exist for the freehold title of your site.

                        The Land Registy has kept on their computer : record of your leasehold title started in 1987 .
                        The Companies House records show the the freehold company was dissolved in 2002.
                        The Land Registry has no computer record for any transfers of freehold title between 1987 and 2002 .

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