Viewing Lease before buying

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  • ram
    replied
    Originally posted by Sarah B View Post
    I always ask for a copy of the lease, often get the same response as you but simply say I won't make an offer without it. you can get it from Land Registry for £7.
    And reduce the payment for the flat by £ 7. as you are BUYING the lease that enables persons the legal right to live there ( no lease - then you cant live there ) and sellers / agents REFUSED to supply a copy of the lease that you were buying so you could see if the stipulations / rules/ restrictions were acceptable, so charge them for it.

    They have to learn, these sellers and agents. The hard way. Just transfer money less £ 7 and tell seller the agents / solicitors refused to give you a copy of that which you were buying.



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  • Sarah B
    replied
    I always ask for a copy of the lease, often get the same response as you but simply say I won't make an offer without it. Chances are the estate agent won't have been given it but they can ask for it. Alternatively you can get it from Land Registry for £7.

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  • philg
    replied
    i recently had this on a flat , i wanted to know what the lease said prior to making an offer . i just contacted land registry and paid the fee and they sent a copy to me . very efficient and worth paying

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  • Codger
    replied
    Expensive And unnecessary like EPCs.

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  • ram
    replied
    P.S.
    and produce to it the instrument effecting the transaction and pay to it a reasonable fee and any Value Added Tax payable on such fee for the registration of such notice

    This will be a copy of the tenancy agreement that the letting agent gives to the tenant and a copy to you.
    If you let a flat, You send to M.A or freeholder - who ever asks for it.

    If you sell the flat you send ( via solicitor ) the deed that shows you no longer live there, but someone else now owns the flat ( and promises to abide by the lease )

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  • ram
    replied
    Originally posted by jp13abk View Post
    ram Do you know if there's a record kept for the repairs done to common areas (roof, building walls, painting, driveway, etc.) that owners / buyers can view? This could help to create a rough idea on what larger maintenance expenses to expect for the coming years.
    Of course records are kept, but don't expect a full blown copy record for the last 20 years.
    Your solicitor will be asking questions as shown at http://ram2.hostbyet2.com/ ,
    SELLING1.DOC ( Questions freeholder / Managing agents are asked, when flat for sale.)
    they need to see, as you do, the last 3 years service chage demands, AND expected expenditure over the next 2 or 3 years that are major ( such as a new roof or driveway )

    Originally posted by jp13abk View Post
    "To give notice in writing thereof and of the name and address of the assignee mortgagee sub-lessee or other person taking an interest thereunder to the Landlord...
    This is only what you must do once you have let the flat.
    Look for an item that says you must get authorisation from the leaseholder to let your flat ( or similat to those words ) - if there is none, you do't need permission, but still have to inform the freeholder.


    Originally posted by jp13abk View Post
    Would this next section mean that I need to, not only inform them, but pay them a fee too? Would you have any idea of how much would this fee be, and if it'd be a recurring cost or a one-off?[INDENT]
    "...and produce to it the instrument effecting the transaction and pay to it a reasonable fee and any Value Added Tax payable on such fee for the registration of such notice
    the fee shold not be more tha £ 45 for them to register that you are not livung there, but a sub-tenant is AND they need to know who you have assigned your flat to -- Name, previous address, contact numbers, in the same way they have yours ( place catches fire, water gushing out of your flat - they also need to contact the person living there.and for insurance reasons, how many people living there.

    The fee to register the new occupant is a once only fee for that sub-tenant ( underlease ) and NOT at every renewal of the anual sub-tenancy, provided the tenant stays the same.
    Previous questions at post 27, answered above.




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  • jp13abk
    replied
    Macromia thank you for replying to both questions.

    Do you have a rough idea of what a "reasonable fee" would be for such action?
    • I'm not sure if the fee can vary wildly depending on the flat's value?
    • Or if it's linked to the rental payment to be received by leaseholder?
    • Or if it's calculated using the ground rent?
    • Or if it's usually the same fee (say £300?) +/- £100, regardless of the factors mentioned above
    Also, would you know if the "reasonable fee" is paid as a one-off when you let the landlord know about your intention to rent? Or would it be an annually or monthly recurring fee?

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  • jp13abk
    replied
    ram thank you for the clarification. Do you know if there's a record kept for the repairs done to common areas (roof, building walls, painting, driveway, etc.) that owners / buyers can view? This could help to create a rough idea on what larger maintenance expenses to expect for the coming years.

    Regarding your comment 'Look for an item that says you must get authorisation from the leaseholder to let your flat', could it be this?

    "To give notice in writing thereof and of the name and address of the assignee mortgagee sub-lessee or other person taking an interest thereunder to the Landlord..."

    Would this next section mean that I need to, not only inform them, but pay them a fee too? Would you have any idea of how much would this fee be, and if it'd be a recurring cost or a one-off?

    "...and produce to it the instrument effecting the transaction and pay to it a reasonable fee and any Value Added Tax payable on such fee for the registration of such notice"

    Thanks for your help

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  • Macromia
    replied
    Q1:
    Your understanding is correct. You also need to provide the freeholder with a copy of the rental contract (you will need to comply with data protection rules so will need the renters permission to pass some details on, and may need to redact some details from the contract).
    You are also likely to find that what the freeholder, or their managing agent, considers to be a "reasonable fee" is much higher than what you might consider reasonable.

    Q2:
    If a new lease has been agreed (usually to extend the term) there will usually be terms included in the new lease that replace the terms of the old lease - but only the terms that are changing will tend to be mentioned in any detail and the other terms of the old lease will remain unchanged.
    This means that the ground rent is £170 per year, doubling every 25 years, and maintenance is "such an annual amount as the landlord may consider reasonably necessary to meet anticipated expenses in the coming 12 months...".
    The landlord can charge whatever amount is considered necessary, but can only charge for the expenses that the lease says can be charged for.

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  • ram
    replied
    You can not "Let" part of your flat for the exclusive use of a sub-tenant ( this also includes not letting your garage )

    You can vacate and Let your flat to people on an Assured Short Term Tenancy, usualy through a letting agent, but you must inform the freeholder that you have done so, as per lease above.

    Look for an item that says you must get authorisation from the leaseholder to let your flat ( or similat to those words ) - if there is none, you do't need permission, but still have to inform the freeholder.

    When the first lease was made, it was "Calclated" at that time, the ground rent would be £20/y, maintenance charge for that year was £62/y

    It's now year 2021, Lease was in 1970. and building may be considerably older than 1970.
    The lease clearly states that repair/mantenence will be charged at what the anticipated costs arrive at for the following 12 months ( every year )
    The older the building, the more maintemence it requires. one day it may need a new roof, Sagging boundary walls replaced / rebuilt, Driveway resurfaced ( £ 6000 to £ 25000 ).

    there are NO fixed never to be increased service charges, and it cannot remain at 1970 rate of £ 62 per year ( buildings insurance would be about £ 1000 for 4 flats - thats £ 250 each flat, just for that one item )

    Service charges ( maintenence ) is what ever it costs to maintaing the common parts of the building. It cannot stay static.

    Try complaining to a garage on your annual service that they charged 4 times than last year ! When the brakes pipes rusted and needed to be replaced, or that they did not put new tyres on last year so why did they renew them this year, or the battery has never failed before, so why did they change it with an expensive bill 4 times more than last year.

    People think that wood around and in the roof never rots and will last 999 years, or drains never get clogged, and grass root never colg up thee drains, or mortar never deteriates etc, etc, etc,

    Service charges ( maintenence ) has to be 1) needed: 2) Be reasonable, 3) be carried out within a reasonable time 4) You are advised every year the maintenence costs and will be given a break down of the costs.







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  • jp13abk
    replied
    I've been reading through the lease and I had a series of questions that I was hoping to get some help with:
    • Q1: From the Lessee Covenants shown in the screenshot below, my understanding is as follows. Can someone confirm if I'm correct?
    (7) - You can't let part of the flat. However you can rent out the flat as a whole?

    (8) - You need to provide the name and address of the person you are renting out the flat to, and you need to pay the landlord a reasonable fee plus tax?

    610C5505-13F4-4DAB-B36A-F3902285DF9B.jpeg
    • Q2: Regarding an contradiction in the figures for yearly rent and yearly maintenance charge:
    Original lease (1977): rent £20/y, maintenance charge £62/y (screenshot below)

    New lease (2020): rent £170/y doubling every 25 years. No mention of maintenance charge

    Estate Agent information: rent of £20/y, maintenance charge £1300/y
    - Which are the correct figures?
    - Why doesn't the new lease doesn't mention a maintenance charge?
    - Can this charge vary yearly depending on the management costs of the site? Surely there has to be a stipulated bracket, otherwise the landlord could ask for whatever they deem appropriate?


    AC6D1101-20FB-4A43-9AB0-25E47A39730D.jpeg


    Thanks again for all the advice.

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  • Gordon999
    replied
    Moderator of this site

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  • jp13abk
    replied
    Thanks for your replies.

    I've posted some questions regarding the lease but it's been (mistakenly?) classed as spam.

    Who can I contact to try sort this so that the post can be viewed?

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  • ram
    replied
    JP13abk... Please note, you are not buying a flat, you are buying the lease. ( Transfering the ownership of the lease for a sum of money )

    It is 21 pages or more that you are buying. You need to see what you are buying.

    You also need to see what restrictions are in place when you live there and own the lease. You need to see about ground rent increases per 10 years ( if applicable ) You need to see the common areas, the parking spaces, the reserve funds ( if applicable )
    It's all in the lease.

    No sight of the the lease, then walk away.

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  • jp13abk
    replied
    Originally posted by sgclacy View Post

    The e professional service does enable me to download a lease - I do it many times each month !
    I wasn't aware that this could be done. Thanks!

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