RFR Right of First Refusal Auction

[Gordon999]

Does anyone know where I can obtain an 8B Notice? Thanks.

What is an 8B Notice ?

[Centurino]

Does anyone know where I can obtain an 8B Notice? Thanks.

[Gordon999]

Good result . Well done .

[Centurino]

Further update. Today we have received notice from the serving solicitor that their 5B was invalid and they will be severing the flats from the houses. Amount spent £13.50 on postage. Amount saved £2k plus. Result!

[Centurino]

Quick update and a caution about RFR which is a very cumbersome procedure. We managed to serve a robust 5b with signatures from all qualifying tenants which landed on the desk of the serving solicitor with four days to spare.

We wasted a good three to four weeks speaking to the houses who still believe they have an RFR (which they don't), an 'investor' from this forum whose offer quickly changed from a win-win to a win-lose for us. But more importantly, we faffed about chasing qualifying tenants for almost two months, who for a plethora of ridiculous reasons avoided communicating with us, only to come alive, collectively offering double the auction reserve/guide price with 7 days left to submit the section 6 acceptance notice.

My recommendation is, forget the circulars, emails, texts, phone calls. Instead, bang on qualifying tenant's doors whether they live on or off-site and clearly and enthusiastically explain your plans, but more importantly, keep it simple so you get your most wanted response. And do it early within the two-month period to avoid unnecessary stress.

Having saved £2k on legal costs so far we're now negotiating via a solicitor and have various contingencies mapped out should it reach auction and beyond.

Thanks all for your input.

[sgclacy]

If the section 5b notice is invalid the seller may pull the sale to avoid the risk of a prosecution; the auctioneer will generally refuse to auction if it is shown to them that the notices is void

Technically the prosecution would be for a criminal offence - the prosecution would be brought by the Local Authority - although I suspect as funds are very limited, and it's not a flagrant attempt to ignore the section 5 laws and as far as I am aware there have been no prosecutions under the Act it would be highly unlikely the freeholder would be prosecuted - the Act gives a remedy to assist the injured party, which rather makes the time and cost of a criminal prosecution very unlikely - which is what you may be proposing if the sale goes ahead

So as flying freehold states the auctioneer would unless supported by a legal opinion of some standing, withdraw the property from the auction

[flyingfreehold]

If the section 5b notice is invalid the seller may pull the sale to avoid the risk of a prosecution; the auctioneer will generally refuse to auction if it is shown to them that the notices is void

[sgclacy]

What are the ground rent terms ? They appear to be indexed linked.

The idea I have suggested should enable your nightmare to come to an end in a matter of a few months.

It appears you are considering taking no action and then seeking to recover the freehold from the purchaser on the basis that the section 5 process is invalid and acquiring the part you want (i.e. the block of flats) on the basis of a pro rata valuation based on what the purchaser paid. The circumstances of this case are unusual and if challenged by the purchaser your nightmare continues and your legal costs could be quite substantial

An alternative would be to write formerly to the auction house, the freeholder and their solicitor advising that the Section 5B notice has been incorrectly served as the requirements to accept the notice are misleading. Their notice would imply, I assume, that more than 50% of all the 40 residents have to support the reservation of your rights, whereas of course 50% of the flat owners have to support the proposal. You then advise that it is your intention to challenge the sale after it completes. Almost certainly this letter would be disclosed in the legal pack if they chose to press head regardless

It is possible that they may reserve the notice just on the flat owners but offering you the freehold to the flats and the houses which of course would not assist you.

It is also possible that realizing the notices served our defective may agree to sell the freehold to the lessees of the flats at the reserve figure and avoid the lengthy delay in reserving Section 5b notices, and you source an external investor to buy up the freehold to the leasehold houses to tie in with the completion of the sale

[Section20z]

But it isn't valid as it was wrongly served on the houses as well, which should have been severed as on the 5a in 2015. We expect a reply within 7 days. The problem we have is, that some of the flats naively believe the imminent reform will wipe their ground rent completely. I don't believe it will and am eager to buy the flat freehold ASAP to wrap this 15-year nightmare up. If we fail to submit the acceptance notice by the 5th March, maybe we'll get the offer we want, £15-20k to buy the flats only.

£15_20k seems unrealistic. What was the value given in 2015?

[Centurino]

But it isn't valid as it was wrongly served on the houses as well, which should have been severed as on the 5a in 2015. We expect a reply within 7 days. The problem we have is, that some of the flats naively believe the imminent reform will wipe their ground rent completely. I don't believe it will and am eager to buy the flat freehold ASAP to wrap this 15-year nightmare up. If we fail to submit the acceptance notice by the 5th March, maybe we'll get the offer we want, £15-20k to buy the flats only.

[sgclacy]

What is the ground rent review pattern for the various leases

Aside from a legal bill perhaps of say £1,000 from your solicitor I see no downside in you reserving your rights. As you know if you decide not to proceed and withdraw 28 days after then no costs are recoverable from you from the other side.

As a result of reserving your rights you will find all interest from investors disappears, and you may acquire the whole thing for around £63k - if you then immediately dispose of the leasehold houses you should get back around £42,000 for the houses and quickly as section 5 will not apply. This will leave you paying £21,000 for the freehold of the flats. You may need to find an investor to either buy the houses or lend you the £42,000 while you try and find a buyer. Expect to pay around 0.3% per month however on any secured loan ( i.e £126 per month) - however that will be offset by the ground rent income the house will produce whilst you find a buyer which will be around £350 - so in fact you will make a profit.

I think challenging the validity of the 5b notice is the wrong road to go down.

[Centurino]

The letter challenging the 5b has gone out today to the 5b serving solicitor, asking them to serve a new 5b excluding the houses. However, I don't believe they will do this nor respond to that letter. We have 2 weeks and 2 days to get an RFR acceptance notice delivered if we wish to go this route. We see strong pros and cons both ways.

[sgclacy]

Whatever your legal costs were in communicating your acceptance

how much tine do you have before the auction

[Centurino]

An outstanding question is what are the costs if we choose not to accept the RFR post-auction?

[sgclacy]

You could do a deal with an investor who would buy the freehold interest to the houses at the same time you have to complete on the purchase

I may be that investor - send me a personal message

If that would solve your problem then you should reserve your rights and you may we’ll get the freehold at a very good price

It is very important you get professional advice on reserving your right at auction - it is easy to trip up on that