Demise Roof

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    Demise Roof

    Hi all.

    I am looking for some advice on a LH flat I am looking to purchase.

    The flat is in a period conversion comprising of 5 flats, and the freeholder also owns the leasehold interest to 4 of the flats (so presumably once owned the entire building). The flat I am looking to buy is LH which the FH presumably sold off at some point.

    He has indicated he is not willing to sell a share of freehold, despite it being worth very little in reality (apart from control).

    The flat in question is on the third floor and the bedroom at the back of the flat is an extension. There are steps down to the bedroom inside the flat and I want to possibly convert the roof of the extension into a terrace, as it could possibly be assessed from inside the flat.

    If the freeholder agrees to demise the flat roof space to me, is it then up to me what I do with it? Or would I still need the freeholder to consent to any plans for a terrace even when it is demised to me.

    Also, as the flat roof is above the second bedroom, I am assuming the freeholder could not use that space as a terrace as it would be built on top of flat I would own and presumably I would have to agree to it?

    Also once demised, am I responsible for the flat roof and any repairs?

    Any help greatly appreciated


    #2
    Anyone have any comments on this?

    Comment


      #3
      I would walk away. Owning 4 out of 5 leasehold leave you with 1 in a very weak voting position to exert any control.

      Generally you would need permission from the Freeholder for what you want to do, depends on the lease. Remember you are not buying ownership, just the right to live there for a number of years, subject to abiding by the lease.

      It appears to me the Freeholder is in a strong position and wants to keep it that way.

      Think carefully.

      Comment


        #4
        Yeah I know I do hate the concept of leasehold. But its a very well maintained building and I've seen so many that are much much worse that are s/freehold with higher service charges!

        Actually I am wrong. There are 5 flats in total, the freeholder owns the leasehold to 2 flats. So 3 individual leaseholders.

        The reason the freeholder does not want to sell a share of freehold I believe is because he originally owned the entire building, but sold off 3 flats 10 years ago.

        As I say, I hate L/H in general but it does sound like its a well run building and service charges are not exorbitant (unless where I am now)

        Comment


          #5
          Correction - landlord owns the LH to 3 flats. The other 2 flats have been sold to other leaseholders. Makes sense from a 'voting' perspective.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by scot22 View Post
            Remember you are not buying ownership, just the right to live there for a number of years, subject to abiding by the lease.
            A misconception. What you buy is an estate in land. What the freeholder has is an estate in land.


            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by ecfc29 View Post
              If the freeholder agrees to demise the flat roof space to me, is it then up to me what I do with it? Or would I still need the freeholder to consent to any plans for a terrace even when it is demised to me.
              The roof space may already be demised - it depends on the terms of the lease and layout. What consents you need also depends on the terms of the lease.

              Comment


                #8
                If you buy an estate in land that appears to make you equal to Freeholder. I'm not understanding.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by scot22 View Post
                  If you buy an estate in land that appears to make you equal to Freeholder. I'm not understanding.
                  "Estate" is a word with several meanings. In the context of this thread it is a type of interest in land.

                  All the land in England belongs to the Crown. The nearest anyone else can get to absolute ownership of land under English law is an estate in fee simple often equated to, though in theory different from, freehold. "Estate" tells you how long you own the land for and "tenure" the terms on which you hold it. An estate in fee simple is often thought of as lasting for ever, but is more correctly described as being of indefinite duration. It belongs to the owner "and his heirs" (to be understood as "and then his heirs"). If an owner dies without heirs the land reverts to the Crown. A fee simple is freehold tenure, but all the conditions attached to freehold tenure have, over the course of history, been abolished or fallen away. That however does not stop an estate in fee simple and freehold tenure from being distinct things.

                  If you are granted a lease by someone who holds an estate you get an estate known as a term of years and the corresponding tenure is leasehold. An estate of a term of years is, as it name suggests, of fixed duration. The conditions attached to the tenure are the terms on which the tenancy was granted.

                  It is therefore possible for two or more estates to exist in the same piece of land.

                  If a freeholder grants a lease then:

                  ·What the owner of the fee simple effectively "owns" is the right to any rent reserved and the right to possession when the tenancy ends.
                  ·What the owner of the term of years effectively "owns" is the right to possession for the duration of the tenancy
                  ·What neither owns is the land itself.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thanks, I understand now.

                    Comment

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