Roof and render. Huge project to be carried out

[surreygirl]

Hello Everyone.

We have a lot of work to do to the outside of the house. Victorian house with six flats.

The roof and render need to be done. The work is going to take from four to six weeks.

We have appointed a Managing Agent. We have gone through the S20 process so all fine there. Then there were the quotes to to come up or recommendations. I actually got a quote from a building company with a good recommendation. They gave a very details quote of what they would do based on the Surveyors report.

However he has come up with two self-employed builders. There is a quote of such. Very small with no address or contact details. There will be three men working on it as well as a renderer. The quote is very skimpy and doesnt outline what work they will carry out. They have been recommended by the MA and he says they are very good workers and have done this sort of work before, however there is nothing on the internet and no address or other details are given.

Some of us have asked for more details but it has fallen on deaf ears. So should we trust what the MA is saying that they are excellent at what they do and that they have done similar work and what about a guarantee. There is no mention of that also their quote doesnt show whether they have Public Liability Insurance.

Problem is we need the work to be done ASAP as water is coming into the house since the render is no longer waterproof.

Would any of you go along with two/three self employed. They apparently do not pay VAT so it makes it cheaper, but it worries me. Apparently they do not earn over £85k a year, so if they have done similar work how come they have not earned more.

A few thoughts would be helpful as we are sending the MA a letter to get a bit more information and we need to say something to him which at the same time doesnt upset him but gets him to act.

There is not a lot we can do about changing him as two of the leaseholders/freeholders like him.

[Macromia]

What is the situation with regard to freeholder/leaseholders?
You have said that you have appointed a manager, so I presume that either you are the freeholder, or the block is one where the leaseholders have control (either via a share of freehold, or as a RTM).

You say that the section 20 process has been carried out, but part 2 of this process is for the details of at least two of the quotes to be produced, and for leaseholders to then have the opportunity to make 'observations' on these quotes.
At that point all objections should have been raised, which would have included the opportunity to state that the quotes from these independent contractors were not sufficiently detailed, that there was little information available on past track record, and that there was therefore no way to adequately assess their suitability for the contract. Putting objections in at this point wouldn't stop the contractors being used, but it would help you to argue that the service charges for the work were unreasonable if the quality of the contractors work was later found to be poor.

The contractor that is ultimately chosen for the contract should be decided by the freeholder/directors of the management company, not by the managing agent (although the managing agent can be allowed to advise).
Are you a director? If so, and I was in your position, I would be looking to seek guarantees about the quality of the work as part of any contract off this type - with the contract clearly stating that the contractor will be fully responsible for the cost of any remedial work required as a result of poor quality work.

[sgclacy]

Appoint a surveyor to oversee the works, particularly in the first few days - there will be a cost but it may enable you to take on the contractors , if the work is no good then they can be dismissed and others instructed

[surreygirl]

What is the situation with regard to freeholder/leaseholders?
You have said that you have appointed a manager, so I presume that either you are the freeholder, or the block is one where the leaseholders have control (either via a share of freehold, or as a RTM).

You say that the section 20 process has been carried out, but part 2 of this process is for the details of at least two of the quotes to be produced, and for leaseholders to then have the opportunity to make 'observations' on these quotes.
At that point all objections should have been raised, which would have included the opportunity to state that the quotes from these independent contractors were not sufficiently detailed, that there was little information available on past track record, and that there was therefore no way to adequately assess their suitability for the contract. Putting objections in at this point wouldn't stop the contractors being used, but it would help you to argue that the service charges for the work were unreasonable if the quality of the contractors work was later found to be poor.

The contractor that is ultimately chosen for the contract should be decided by the freeholder/directors of the management company, not by the managing agent (although the managing agent can be allowed to advise).
Are you a director? If so, and I was in your position, I would be looking to seek guarantees about the quality of the work as part of any contract off this type - with the contract clearly stating that the contractor will be fully responsible for the cost of any remedial work required as a result of poor quality work.

Hello Macromia,

Yes I am a Director.

Yes two of us have raised objections about the lack of information in the quotes and the answer from him was that they are "builders not administrators". A rather dubious response.

I and the another of the Leaseholders/Freeholders have sent out an email details our fears to the other four Leaseholders/Freeholders but so far they have not come back to us. We asked them if they were happy with the lack of information and did they have any concerns.

"The following are my suggestions on how to mitigate the risks:

· Ensure that the builders have public liability insurance and that any damage to the building or its occupants will be covered.

· Protection of existing features (such as windows and doors) during the works: I suggest the MA gives us a description of the measures that will be put in place and confirms that he, as the project manager, will ensure this is carried out.

· Since the builders are not registered tradesmen, in order to get an idea on their level of expertise, I suggest they give us a couple of similar references (along with name and contact details) and we check them

I also asked if there was a guarantee with the work. In particular with the render who is going to be a subcontractor a friend or colleague of these two builders. The quote I obtained from a good company is very details in the work they will do to remedy the repairs which are required ie the roof and all the render removed.

So far no response by the other four.

I will send out today what you have said. A good idea. So thanks for that.

I may add that I found two excellent companies, albeit a bit more expensive, but the MA didnt even speak to them on them. I got one of them to call the MA and the said that he didnt sound very interested and never got back to them.

Thank you for your help.

[surreygirl]

Appoint a surveyor to oversee the works, particularly in the first few days - there will be a cost but it may enable you to take on the contractors , if the work is no good then they can be dismissed and others instructed

Good idea but we need all of the Leaseholders/Freeholders to agree. We have put forward this idea before but it has been meet with silence for the other directors and also the MA. But I will bring it up again.

[surreygirl]

The other thing is. Could we withhold part of the money. At the moment we have to put 10k in the bank, but could we say that we will put the first £5k in and when the work has been completed to a certain point we will put the rest in!