Another Leaseholder accusing my Tenant of being noisy

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Another Leaseholder accusing my Tenant of being noisy

    I am a joint lease holder of an apartment, the other leaseholder contacted me a few days ago to say I was in breach of my lease because his tenant says my tenant is noisy. I have had no real reports of this up until recently, I spoke to my tenant who vehemently denies it. I have contacted the council and although 2 incidents of noise were reported they didn't have enough evidence to support the complaint so it was dropped. Now this leaseholder is threatening further action? Ive asked him for more proof but nothing yet has materialised, can he take me to court?

    #2
    No.

    What he can do is talk to the management committee / freeholder about the breach of the lease.
    They can enforce the terms of your lease.
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    Comment


      #3
      This is what was put in the email, Ive spoken to other neighbours and they say he's quiet and considerate and not a disturbance. I cant evict him over what one person claims..He says he's taking it further after I mentioned the above. ?!?!

      as a signed Trusty of the Declaration of Trust for the properties, that you are responsible for the upholding of the conditions of the lease. You are now in breach of Part 2 of the of the lease conditions – “Nuisance” sections 1 and 3.2 and of the fifth schedule “Quiet Enjoyment”. We are now seeking legal action to have this issue resolved once and for all. Unless you can provide written evidence Friday 2020 that you will resolve this, we will take the appropriate action.

      Comment


        #4
        Would issuing a formal warning to your tenant satisfy them. Have they quantified what 'resolve' means?

        Comment


          #5
          Not your problem.

          Even if you wanted to you can't evict your tenant just because someone else thinks they are noisy.

          'Quiet enjoyment' is nothing to do with noise levels, it's about not harassing your tenant with unnecassary visits, inspections, etc.
          Which shows that the complainer doesn't have a clue.

          This is a dispute between neighbours and nothing to do with you as a landlord (might be different in Scotland with their ASB rules?).

          Let the complainer waste their time/money 'taking it further'.

          Comment


            #6
            From the jump, it sounds vindictive like a relationship type vindictive. Is your tenant a female by any chance? Have you had any past run ins with this leaseholder? Maybe your tenant has. If not and your tenant denies the noisy accusations, why would they attack you this way?

            Comment


              #7
              If I suspected foul play, what I would probably do is counter their Nuisance Notice by sending them the same Nuisance Notice to put the burden of proof on them.

              Comment


                #8
                The 'landlord' non resident leaseholder may be in the clear perhaps, not too sure, but the accused occupier may not. There is always the tort route using s82 of the EPA 1990. Depends as ever on evidence. See Shelter Legal..

                https://england.shelter.org.uk/legal...e_noise#_edn14
                Do not read my offerings, based purely on my research or experience as a lessee, as legal advice. If you need legal advice please see a solicitor.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks all - We've sent messages back asking for more proof of the noise, such as a council letters etc, I've had emails from the Neighbours surrounding the flat saying the area is generally noisy anyway.. He's now turned nasty as we've said that we wont evict our tenant as do not believe the issue to be as bad as he's making out - His reply
                  "Well let’s see what happens over the coming month – remember we are joint landlords and trustees of the property"

                  He's apparently now compiling more evidence. I just don't want to be landed with proceedings that could be costly...

                  Comment


                    #10
                    It is not possible to be certain of anything in the law. However, the burden of proof is on the person making the assertion. From what you have said I think that would be extremely difficult.
                    sometimes it's better just to wait. Possibly a lot of bluff.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by nukecad View Post
                      This is a dispute between neighbours and nothing to do with you as a landlord (might be different in Scotland with their ASB rules?).
                      If the lease is reasonably well drafted, this will be a dispute between leaseholders, because it will be the OP that will be in breach of the covenant to avoid nuisance, by failing to rein in their tenant. My lease says I am responsible for those who gain possession of the property under me.

                      Whilst the failure of the council to act probably means that a nuisance case will fail, The lease may also refer to the lower level of "annoyance". The main difficulty there, for the tenant, is that leases assume these things will be resolved by good will and peer pressure and never have to go to the FTT for a ruling. That tends not to work with an absentee landlord.

                      Incidentally, I would never expect a tenant to admit to causing this sort of problem.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by leaseholder64 View Post
                        My lease says I am responsible for those who gain possession of the property under me.
                        That's usual in blocks of flats, and the building owner may have a case under the lease against the leasee/flat owner if their tenant causes a nuisance.

                        You'd need a similar clause in the TA, which may then allow you to file for an eviction order against the accused tenant.
                        Good luck with getting a judge to grant that, especially where, as in this case, there is no confirmed proof of any nuisance.

                        There's a couple of interesting court cases cited here (I do note that it's from 2018, and in both cases the LL was a council):
                        https://levisolicitors.co.uk/news/nu...tenants-claim/
                        In general, a landlord is not liable for nuisance committed by his tenant, but to this rule there is… one recognised exception, namely, that the landlord is liable if he has authorised his tenant to commit the nuisance…
                        The court reaffirmed that a landlord could only be held liable for the nuisance caused by a tenant where it had actually authorised the nuisance; simply knowing about the nuisance and taking no steps to stop it was not enough to bring a claim against the landlord.
                        "Authorising the nuisance" would be things like knowingly letting your property out as a band practice room, or a noisy workshop.

                        The article then notes the situation with clauses in the lease, but again that's between the biulding owner and the leasee, (not the tenant).

                        Comment

                        Latest Activity

                        Collapse

                        • Notice fee
                          by Paulsen
                          I am remortgaging my flat and the solicitor has sent a letter to the freeholder asking for a notice fee. I have done it directly to the freeholder and not the MA as we both are in dispute with the old MA and are doing a joint complaint. She probably wouldn’t know how much to ask for and I asked my...
                          04-04-2020, 15:14 PM
                        • Reply to Notice fee
                          by Lawcruncher
                          Pretty pointless as if you write and ask for more fees you have effectively acknowledged receipt.



                          So the tenant declines to pay you money he has no obligation to pay and by way of revenge you decline to comply with your obligations....
                          05-04-2020, 21:37 PM
                        • Reply to Notice fee
                          by Section20z
                          In my experience I would simply not receipt the notice till they have paid the fee.
                          I have only ever had one hold out - and that was last month when they paid the £3 7s 6d stated in the lease - now they want an extension and wonder why I am uncooperative ........ Karma....
                          05-04-2020, 20:46 PM
                        • Selling and buying flat -share transfer
                          by Stacker
                          I understand that a condition of ownership of a flat that the new tenant becomes a member of the company and the old tenant transfers the share.

                          Therefore If there are two tenants of a single flat (e.g. husband and wife) then they will own the share jointly.

                          I understand that...
                          05-04-2020, 19:23 PM
                        • Reply to Selling and buying flat -share transfer
                          by Section20z
                          That will depend entirely on your article of association....
                          05-04-2020, 20:39 PM
                        • Reply to Notice fee
                          by Lawcruncher
                          The way to deal with cases where the lease says to pay a reasonable fee not less than £x is send £x. If the solicitor comes back and says his standard fee is £y where y is greater than x, you write back and say that you consider £x to be more than reasonable for the simple task of registering your...
                          05-04-2020, 17:58 PM
                        • Reply to Covid and breach of lease notice from Freeholder?
                          by zv2k
                          Thanks alot really appreciate it!
                          05-04-2020, 15:34 PM
                        • Covid and breach of lease notice from Freeholder?
                          by zv2k
                          Hi All! I had been renting the second room out in my 2bed 2 bath flat for a while, and then last year decided to rent both out so I could save up for a potential brexit dip to buy a second property. Anyway waiting for Brexit became rather extended. I had been renting one of the rooms (both ensuite)...
                          05-04-2020, 04:25 AM
                        • Reply to Covid and breach of lease notice from Freeholder?
                          by jpkeates
                          10a means that you can't let on a room only basis whether you live there or not. Nor is there any mechanism for the lessor to consent to such an arrangement.
                          You can't do what you want to do and have been doing.
                          Technically the person you are allowing to stay there rent free is probably...
                          05-04-2020, 13:53 PM
                        • Reply to Covid and breach of lease notice from Freeholder?
                          by zv2k
                          I've typed out the lease below, if you could please review:

                          "Not to:

                          10. a. transfer lor assign or underlet or part withor share possession of any part of the property (as distinct from the whole)

                          b. Underlet the property otherwise than with the prior...
                          05-04-2020, 13:02 PM
                        Working...
                        X