Can I take fellow leaseholder to court over ASB?

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    Can I take fellow leaseholder to court over ASB?

    We have a situation where a landlord has n't taken action against problem tenants. I wrote to the landlord, he did n't pass the complaints to his agents.

    He gave the property to the council. So we have problem tenants. I know!! :-(

    The managing agent for the council have asked me for evidence of ASB. When supplied, the agent has been dismissive. He wanted more evidence, for the council, however, I feel this is a waste of time. As anything we provide, will be trivialised. Why is the burden on us to collect evidence?.

    Just wondering is it possible to take action directly against a leaseholder (landlord) for compensation?. There is laminate flooring, which he does not want to change but he lease says flooring should be carpet. The tenants have been causing a nuisance. At 3am they will ring the neighbour door bell. Too many incident. We have seen other people live at the property, so we believe it is sub-letting, but the agent claims they must be friends. Just going around in circles. Car coming at night, drugs being bought. The tenant going in and out of the property at night. Who is going to whip out their mobile phone, to film a drug deal in teh middle of the night. There is more serious stuff going on..... It is effecting people sleep.

    The council's ASB team don't attend. Police do not attend.

    I feel the requirement on me to provide evidence, it a matter between this landlord and his agent. Why should it be my problem?

    If I am going to have to do the hard work and provide and collect evidence. Is n't better I take the matter to court and seek compensation. What rights does my Lease give me?

    If loud music is being played, then you can't use the property. The landlord does nt loose any rent, nor the agent. We are paying the price for the disturbance.


    #2
    You'll have to collect the evidence, yourself, if you go to court.

    If you can't get the police or environmental health on side, it is unlikely that you will win a court case.

    Many leases will not give you any rights to action under the lease. Commonly only the freeholder can do that. As such we would need to see the lease to know whether you could take action against a leaseholder, as against a neighbour.

    Without the lease, you would need to demonstrate a nuisance which is unlikely to be successful if you cannot demonstrate it environmental health.

    The lease may also have clauses about annoyance, but those can only really be enforced by peer pressure.

    Are you owner occupier, or just sub-landlord?

    You are not going to get sympathy from the landlords here, as their policy is ignore neighbour disputes. On the other hand the council really should be more sympathetic, as many are trying to make private landlords take responsibility for their tenants.

    Does the lease have any permission to let clause? Whilst private landlords don't like these, they do give the freeholder the option of barring rent to rent schemes, at least to social landlords.

    Comment


      #3
      If you take action on a neighbour basis, I think you will have to go after the occupier, not the their landlord.

      If the sub-landlord has been doing rent to rent for more than three years, they are likely to have developed a thick skin and simply not care. All they'll do is forward the complaint to the social landlord. If they do care, they may be trapped into the contract for at least three years.

      People who go rent to rent generally don't want to do any management of the property or its occupiers, and just want a stable income; that's how these arrangements are sold.

      Social landlords doing rent to rent arrangement will be experts in defending against actions by neighbours.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Flashback1966 View Post
        We have a situation where a landlord has n't taken action against problem tenants. I wrote to the landlord, he did n't pass the complaints to his agents. He gave the property to the council.
        Gave is a strong word. The FH will have granted a lease to the council, no? Unless the FH retained that flat not as a leasehold. Or do you mean the leaseholder sublet to the council to sublet on again? It is the leaseholder who has the covenants and should ensure any AST tree contains same.

        Worth checking if that leaseholder has right to sublet. Does the lease say no subletting at all? This would need a variation or be brreach. Pay £3 on the LR to download the freehold title and look for any mention of variation to that leasehold title. If not, inform the real freeholder. Leave it to them to decide to act or you may end up indemnifying them.

        Originally posted by Flashback1966 View Post
        The managing agent for the council have asked me for evidence of ASB.
        Ignore them. Their job is to gatekeep. Go direct to environmental services.

        Originally posted by Flashback1966 View Post
        Why is the burden on us to collect evidence?.
        It just is.

        Originally posted by Flashback1966 View Post
        Just wondering is it possible to take action directly against a leaseholder (landlord) for compensation?.
        Google this and be confused. The lease may well in the Deed portion have a 'mutual protection' clause where the leaseholder covenants to abide by their lease for the benefit of the other lessees and the lessor. There might even be clauses about nuisance. But there will also be a clause most likely where if you want the LL to act to enforce the lease you have to sign an indemnification to pay his costs. I read of a CoA case about a wee dog that ran up £70,000 in legal costs. The dog lost.

        Police (should) act if criminal offences occur such as harassment or intimidation or selling drugs. Nuisance and environmental crime will be the local authority's role.

        The LA's website will be full of advice that means you do all the work and they may or may not do anything. You need to keep logs and take recordings of those decibel thingies - watch out for A weighted dBs rather than any other kind or you may be chastised severely. Record the noise on video to prove where the sound comes from, and grab the audio using free Audacity software for smaller MP3 files to forward oif asked.

        I understand formal complaints can appear on searches when you come to sell. So I read.
        Do not read my offerings, based purely on my research or experience as a lessee, as legal advice. If you need legal advice please see a solicitor.

        Comment

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