Service Charge Percentage Wrong

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    #31
    96 @ 1% is 96%, 4% short.

    100 @ 1.11% is 11% over, which if the same for all 100 flats would immediately make the lease defective.

    1.11% makes more sense for 90 flats, where is is only very slightly under.

    I can't see how they can charge you 1% of anything. However, I also can't see anything that excludes the cost of the lifts.

    Howe many flats are there.

    Comment


      #32
      There are various types of flats and town houses in this complex but probably around 150 at least of similar type as mine, however very few with independent entrance and no use of communal lift areas.
      i am getting charged over 3% of total expenditure; which seems 1% more than my lease say. I have proof that 1% less is being charged to similar properties.
      Do I- have to have Lease amended? or claim via small claims? Thanks for helping.

      Comment


        #33
        Even the other flat you mention cannot be being charged more than 1.11% of total expenditure, so I see no way you could be charged 3% of total, however you interpret your lease.

        The percentages are percentages of the expenditure on the times to which they refer, not of the sum of everything.

        Comment


          #34
          Yes agree . Other similar flat pays 1.1%, 0.99% and I pay the same plus another 1% for internal areas.
          I need to get this 1% off from my service charges and seek refund from previous years! How to go about it?
          thanks

          Comment


            #35
            As has been suggested, you need a ruling from the FTT that the charge isn't payable and then a County Court ruling that the debt exists. There may be an order of doing things that makes it more likely that the legal costs will get charged to the freeholder. This assumes that you have to go the whole way.

            Is the freeholder operating as a commercial organisation, or are they a non-profit owned by the leaseholders?

            Did you understand the point that the percentages are not percentages of the total costs, but percentages of specific categories, and the percentage of the total costs cannot exceed the largest of the individual percentages? Some actual numbers of costs in the three categories and how much you are being charged for each, might make it clearer.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by leaseholder64 View Post
              As has been suggested, you need a ruling from the FTT that the charge isn't payable and then a County Court ruling that the debt exists. There may be an order of doing things that makes it more likely that the legal costs will get charged to the freeholder. This assumes that you have to go the whole way.

              Is the freeholder operating as a commercial organisation, or are they a non-profit owned by the leaseholders?

              Did you understand the point that the percentages are not percentages of the total costs, but percentages of specific categories, and the percentage of the total costs cannot exceed the largest of the individual percentages? Some actual numbers of costs in the three categories and how much you are being charged for each, might make it clearer.
              Landlord is a Private holding company ( commercial )
              I have set up a telephone adv from The Leasehold Advisory Service

              FTT and tribunal should be next step

              and then small claims court for debt recovery if all goes ok

              hope I got that in the right order.

              I will post some real figures of the costs , thanks very much

              Comment


                #37
                Here is a breakdown of service charges:
                the internal area cost- is not being paid by equivalent apartments(very few)- which do not have internal areas.
                thanks

                Comment


                  #38
                  Looks like there are 101 properties on the estate, 96 of them contribute to your apartment charge and 92 to your internal charge.

                  What are the actual numbers in each category?

                  The actual percentages differ from the lease, but are more accurate for an equal split 101/96/92 ways. Doing the splits as vulgar fractions would have been more sensible if they are equal.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    I've re-read the lease extract, and it still seems to me that most of the items under block costs relate to internal common area items.

                    What I suspect has happened is that 4 of the leases have different wordings, that fail to cover those items, and those don't get the internal items list, whereas your block costs include them.

                    The actual percentages in the lease are too high, which has left a margin for them to charge different percentages for internal and external. and they have set the percentages so that everything adds up to 100% in each category, to about four decimal places. The way they've done it allows them to use corrected percentages that don't change from year to year, whereas, if they were to use the exact split shown in your lease, the percentages, corrected to avoid going over 100%, would have to vary from year to year, depending on the proportion of apartment versus internal costs.

                    It would be interesting to know whether the four flats that differ are the first ones leased or the last ones.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by leaseholder64 View Post
                      I've re-read the lease extract, and it still seems to me that most of the items under block costs relate to internal common area items.

                      What I suspect has happened is that 4 of the leases have different wordings, that fail to cover those items, and those don't get the internal items list, whereas your block costs include them.

                      The actual percentages in the lease are too high, which has left a margin for them to charge different percentages for internal and external. and they have set the percentages so that everything adds up to 100% in each category, to about four decimal places. The way they've done it allows them to use corrected percentages that don't change from year to year, whereas, if they were to use the exact split shown in your lease, the percentages, corrected to avoid going over 100%, would have to vary from year to year, depending on the proportion of apartment versus internal costs.

                      It would be interesting to know whether the four flats that differ are the first ones leased or the last ones.
                      Thanks very much for your insight, much appreciated. Both of these two flats including mine are from 2004, perhaps for the first ones leased

                      So the plan I hv outlined above ok to go ahead and
                      will it get resolved in my favour? Thanks

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Certainly go to lease advice first, as it is free. For the rest, I'm not sure if it is better in terms of going to the FTT first, or going to the Crown Court and having them redirect to FTT. It will depend on exactly how the FTT's fees are handled if you win. Obviously, if you lose, you risk all the fees. and the other side's court costs.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Thanks , will update soon

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Update: The Leasehold Advisory Service said to give the Company another 2 wks to respond, if they do not engage to resolve/recalculate service charges- I should follow the formal complaint process via Ombudsman and or go via First tier property tribunal.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by leaseholder64 View Post
                              so I see no way you could be charged 3% of total, however you interpret your lease.
                              But he is not being charged 3% of the total.

                              £1969.93/£188,912 = 1.042%

                              Which is about correct albeit the exact apportioning into the 0.99% band vs 1.1% band is a little hard to follow.

                              about 100 flats and he is paying about 100th

                              There may be something off here but it looks like a matter of pennies here not tens of thousands.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                It wasn't clear from his wording of what the percentages were, which is why I asked for real numbers. The amount of stake here isn't pennies, but £412.59 in the year for which the example was provided. The OP is saying that the whole of the last section in the bill doesn't apply to them.

                                I'm still not convinced that this whole thing is not the result of failing to explain an attempt to handle inconsistent leases properly, given that I see nothing in the wording of the lease which means the OP is not liable for the items in the last category.

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