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    #31
    LH64 - I actually agreed with you earlier when you stated that you should look at the total price

    Comment


      #32
      Good morning my friends

      I went to see tenant yesterday. I apologized for his troubles and was listening to his story with which I can emphasize.

      It is naturally expected that when one goes into a new flat that everything is working isn't it?

      Now, I need to know who's responsibility it is to check that all appliances are working before renting the flat? Mine or agents?

      And what is actually the purpose of inventory check? Because tenant hasn't signed it yet.

      It seems that he had problems getting the agent to attend to his needs asap. I need to yet find out exact scenarios. I think for gas they did, and they sent a cowboy guy who put the wrong parts on and leak happened again last week. He said out of 2 weeks in the flat he was only able to cook and wash for 4 days.

      He then called independent gas professional who told him that parts were wrong and he had to change a whole pipe and install other bits too.

      A question here is, I had a company called Spartan who did a gas safety check in April and they provided me with gas certificate! I told tenant to email me all correspondence and report from new gas guy so I can challenge the Spartan! How could they not see that gas is not safe to use???

      For washing machine, tenant said it was mouldy and when he washed first time it smelled of loo! I really don't understand how the vendor gave me a signed form saying everything was working?

      Fridge leaked gas into the internal pipes, again why would that happen if it was switched off?

      The tenant didn't get immediate response from agent re w machine and fridge. He said he emailed and called for two days and they just ignored him. That's why he got very angry and went to the office to demand a fix! He said that's the main reason he wants compensation. He first suggested half June back, now he wants whole June back and said he is a landlord himself from Oslo and he likes to make sure his flats are fully functional before renting, which of course is what we are selling no? He said if he was me he would hammer the agent big time!!!

      I also still don't have any reply from agent re any updates nor copies of work reports etc. I tried to talk tenant out of whole month back, but he said because he travels a lot and runs business in Oslo, he was not able to function and had to buy shirts etc...and stay in the flat for two weeks waiting for workmen to come....I do understand his frustration.

      He paid for service which he didn't get, a fully functional flat.

      I'm wait for all his emails to agent and reports to come to me he will e-mail me.

      What do you think, who should be paying for compensation? And he seems firm that whole month is fair from his point. (Remember he paid for whole June in order to secure the flat but moved in 15 June)

      Thank you so much!!!!

      Comment


        #33
        It is your responsibility to check. However, your contract with the agent could delegate the checking, in which case the agent would have a responsibility to you, but not the tenant.

        It is expected that everything important is in working order, and the tenants are told of minor faults.

        The inventory tells you the starting point for wear and tear, and what should be there when the tenant leaves. Without it you cannot prove that missing items were removed, or that damaged items were damaged during the tenancy, so you will not be able to get compensation, for items that are missing, damaged, or have suffered excessive wear, when the tenants leave. I think it is more important that you can show the tenants received it than that they actually signed it, and even that is probably not essential, if you used an independent clerk.

        I would hope that GasSafe had eliminated cowboys. Anyone else would be committing a crime.

        Please remove the name of the company that did the safety check. Naming and shaming is not allowed on the forum.

        I can't understand the bit about leaking gas into internal pipes in the fridge. There is naturally gas in the internal pipes in a fridge. Fridges work by the evaporation of the refrigerant, into a gas, in the pipes in the cold areas. It wouldn't surprise me if a worn out compressor had difficulty compressing that gas into a liquid, on a cold start. It also wouldn't surprise me if there had been a leak of the gas into the open air.

        I assume by vendor you bought the flat furnished, which normally means you bought from another landlord. I'd say caveat emptor, although you could probably sue the vendor.

        I'd suggest that some compensation is due for the rework on the gas, for the washing machine, and for the fridge, but it is not nothing like the compensation demanded. The highest cost item might be loss of earnings for the time that the tenant had to take off work.

        It sounds like you are a new landlord who is learning, the hard way, that agents need to be managed.



        Comment


          #34
          In another current thread, someone who is likely to be right, says that an unsigned inventory is likely to be ignored in court, so the inventory should probably be signed during check in.,

          Comment


            #35
            A tenant is given a reasonable time to use appliances and report if they do not work properly, it looks like he reported problems immediately. Who prepared the inventory, you or the agent? As landlord, you would be responsible anyway but you may have a claim against your agent depending on your instructions to him. The tenant's claim for compensation is unreasonable, he is making use of the property, he can only claim for actual loss of earnings or reasonable additional expenses which he has incurred, You should ask him to provide proof so that you can take up the claim with the agent if he is partly responsible.,

            Comment


              #36
              Thank you both! My head is spinning and yes I'm a new landlord who is learning 😢

              I need to check the contract with the agent if they were checking the appliances but I had assurance by the seller, he was the owner not landlord, that all is in working order. I didn't go and switch on each machine to test...

              I agree with compensation, full month is unreasonable but looks like tenant is firm and doesn't want to negotiate. My rent from the agent is due to me tomorrow. I will write then with further developments.

              Thank you so much!!

              Comment


                #37
                Don’t worry we all start sometime and we all make mistakes, I wish that I had the benefit of a forum when I started.

                I suggest that you are firm but fair with the tenant, he needs to be made aware that he cannot just raise a complaint each month in order to avoid paying any rent. I would inform him that he is receiving the benefit of new equipment and that the rent would have been higher from the outset had you been aware. I would put the responsibility on him to submit a claim and supply proof so that you can consider it with your agent. I would also say that you will take up his comments with the agent.

                The fridge/freezer seems to be more important than the washing machine, it could be different if the tenant was a large family. Ask yourself how long you could manage without either. What additional expenses would you incur if you did not have the use of them for the time involved? Additional is the key word, the tenant has to eat, he cannot expect you to feed him. He may need to go to a launderette, how far is it, what would be the cost? What proportion of a fully functional flat did he have the benefit of? I don’t see how it can be nil, it is probably somewhere between 95% and 99%.

                The purpose of the inventory is to avoid argument at a later stage regarding what was included and its condition when the tenancy commenced. It is better if the tenant signs it but once supplied to him, he has a limited to time to inform you if he disagrees with it, the amount of time should be specified on the inventory.

                I would check the agreement with the agent and take up the tenant’s comments with him. The agent does not appear to be efficient or acting in your best interests but you should allow him to comment. You should also consider whether or not there is an escape clause within your agreement. If you need to use an agent, it is important to ensure that he is acting efficiently and in your best interests,

                As for your purchase of the equipment, you probably agreed a total purchase price which did not identify the individual amounts for specific equipment. So identifying the cost and proving that it was unreasonable could be difficult.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Good evening all. Thank you for your advices. I have got the doc from the tenant explaining the events and what he wants. I have advised him that I left the flat empty for part of April and whole May because he begged us to secure the flat for him and I accepted on the condition he pays from 1 June as I'm losing too much. So we need to take that in the consideration.

                  please see attached doc from him and let me know your thoughts. I'm just so muddled and don't know how to negotiate 😢

                  Thank you so much

                  the file is too big I have to send in parts

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Date: 02.07.19
                    Case: Flat 5, 11 Eldon Square, RG1 4DP, Reading
                    From: Mr. Ole Petter Anfinsen
                    To: Ms. Lubinka Petrovic
                    Series of events:
                    • On the 14th I pick up the keys from Adams Estates , and on the 15th I am starting my
                    move.
                    • Then during the weekend of the move the following faults were discovered:
                    o The flat was not very clean, and the toilet was covered in old pee, underneath
                    the seat etc.
                    o The tap in the kitchen was very lose, and the closing mechanism of the drain
                    was not working- which meant one could not do the dishes. And since there is
                    no dishwasher this became a big problem.
                    o The fridge and freezer did not work. This meant I could not store food.
                    o The washing-machine was full of mould, and I could not do laundry.
                    o The bottom drawer of the freezer was broken and cracked down the middle.
                    o 2 of the lights underneath the overhead cabinets in the kitchen did not work.
                    o 2 lights on the kitchen fan did not work.
                    o 1 of the buttons/nobs on the toilet did not work, and is still a bit lose.
                    o The spark-mechanism on the hob does not work.
                    o The bathroom – shower room should need some relining to prevent mould and
                    moist in the walls.
                    o Then there was detected a severe gas-leak in the flat (the evening of the 16th),
                    and the meter carried a big sign saying it needed immediate attention (See
                    photo sent earlier), was extremely dangerous and should not be used. (I was
                    not given any info and can only feel blessed that I did not try to use it before I
                    saw this). It started smelling gas in the cabinet and hall, which is why it was
                    discovered. I called SGN who came and sealed it and made it safe, but since
                    the gas was sealed they also cut of all hot water and the oven.
                    • All of this was sent to the agent on Sunday 16th (Day/evening) and I visited their office
                    on the following Monday, 17th
                    , to follow up on everything, where Mr. Khan and the
                    agent then visit the flat. Mr. Khan apologised for everything that had happened and
                    promised that it will all be fixed right away. He also agreed that a compensation would
                    be looked at. (I have not yet heard back regarding this, apart from that it is being
                    looked at).
                    • The same day (Monday 17th) a gas engineer arrives, but he does not manage to fix it on
                    the day (Due to some special parts he needed to get (Which again was the wrong ones
                    since the same connection started leaking again. SGN said this was not the way it
                    should have been done, and they wondered if he was certified as he should have
                    known that this was wrong)) and has to come back. This means, before it is fixed, I
                    have been without hot water for almost a week (But 3 weeks in terms of rent).

                    Comment


                      #40
                      • I then later on get home from work to find that someone has locked themselves in,
                      without giving me any notice (Adams Estates only gave notice for gas engineer, not
                      the other maintenance), and forgotten to lock up properly after themselves. Insurance
                      wise this is a major flaw. I then call in and are being told by Adams Estates that an
                      engineer is working in the flat. I was not given notice about this, even if I specifically
                      was promised that I would get a call at all times before anyone entered the flat.
                      • Then I was also promised that the freezer, fridge, sink and washing machine would get
                      fixed right away, but this never happened.
                      • I call in on Friday 21st, two times to complain and ask when it all will be fixed, and I
                      am promised that an agent (Caine) will call me back, which he had told his colleague
                      that he would (according to the colleague) – giving me an update and a schedule of
                      when things will get fixed. But again, I do not hear anything and have to go through
                      the whole weekend still unable to do dishes, do laundry or store food.
                      • On Sunday 23rd I am sending an email to the agent (Caine), explaining this is not going
                      to cut it for me, and that I expect a compensation for all this and that everything has to
                      get fixed right away. Enough is enough. My suggestion was that the rent for June also
                      covers July, as I have paid for something I have not yet received.
                      • I then visit Adams Estates on the following Monday, 24th
                      , to follow up on this, as I
                      explained to them in the e-mail I sent the day before. I then confront the agent with my
                      disappointment, but according to him he had never said he was going to call me and
                      was not knowing what was going on. (Seems like the colleague had said something
                      that was not true).
                      • Then the agent (Caine) tells me that he has gotten an engineer to meet me at 4 pm, to
                      fix the washing machine, fridge and the freezer, which the engineer was supposed to
                      have done the week before.
                      • I then met with the engineer, who “fixes” the washing machine (which broke down
                      after one laundry) and then have a look at the freezer and fridge. But he tells me that
                      he was not asked to fix the fridge or the freezer the week before (So this was new to
                      him), only to replace a drawer. This is concerning.
                      • Then the engineer does not manage to fix the freezer and fridge and says it is out of
                      gas, which means there has been another gas leak (Which can have happened before I
                      moved in, or after) as well without Adams Estates knowing/checking.
                      • Until this date I have been forced to buy new clothes, as I was unable to do laundry,
                      and on the 25th I had to throw out food from the freezer/fridge in the other flat I was
                      renting(As I had stored my food there) as it had to be cleaned for new tenants. (Only
                      this alone adds up to over 200 GBP).
                      • I have until now been forced to live in a flat which was dangerous to move into in the
                      first place, I have been exposed to gas, (Maybe even two different sources of gas. Both
                      dangerous to humans) and unable to take a shower until the weekend of 22nd. And at
                      this point in time (24th) I am still unable store food or do the dishes. This is way

                      Comment


                        #41
                        beyond acceptable and Adams Estates has quite a case on their hands.
                        • On the 26th a new fridge/freezer arrived and was installed later in the afternoon.
                        • On the 26th I am then trying to do my first laundry of clothes, but then the machine
                        stops working and the water turns brown – with my delicate whites locked inside. I
                        send an email to Mr. Khan, saying this has to get fixed asap. (They arrive two days
                        later to open the machine)
                        • The day after I visit Adams Estates once again, to check what is going on and to
                        follow up on everything, and are then told that I will get a new washing machine.
                        • On the 27th around midnight I smell gas again and call SGN once again. They arrive
                        and secure the flat. Which means I am without hot water once again.
                        • On the 28th SGN come back to investigate, to find another gas leak. This is because
                        there has been used the wrong parts and equipment by the previous engineer, fixing
                        the first gas leak 8Accroding to SGN). SGN took photos of this and called it
                        dangerous and had to make a formal report which I understood they would send to
                        British Gas.
                        • Then on the 28th a new washing machine is delivered (Keeping me home, away from
                        work for over 5 hours, which has happened on almost every occasion). Then later in
                        the evening it is installed by maintenance from Adams Estates.
                        • Then later in the evening the gas engineer arrived to redo the job, he did wrong to
                        begin with (according to SGN), and finishes around 7 pm on a Friday evening.
                        • Until this point, I have lived in the flat for half a month, paid rent for a full month, and
                        hardly anything has been working and I have had two (Possibly three) gas leaks. I do
                        hope I will get a month compensation for this, as June has been a horrible month,
                        which hardly have allowed me to focus on anything else than getting things sorted. I
                        have had so much work, research and social events that I have not managed to get
                        ready for/gotten around to, and have had to stay home and work form the “home
                        office”.
                        • Today it is 2nd July and Adams Estates are still not finished, and the cabinet doors on
                        the fridge/freezer are yet to be attached.
                        • There is also discovered that the tap in the bathroom sink does not give hot-water,
                        only cold, and the pressure is very low. I assume there is something wrong with the
                        “water battery”. This will be reported tomorrow (3rd July) to Adams Estates.

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