Mismanaged Management Co.

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    Mismanaged Management Co.

    When I purchased my apartment in 2003 on an UL, I did not receive theHL and share certificate until 12 months later. They had been sent direct to the mortgage co. I was a Director for a few months in 2005 andobtained documents which showed that there was a Reversionary Freehold purchased with the apartment. The Developer is a charity. The HL states that all the ULs were tobe notified but we never have been. I have tried to tell all the other shareholders/uls but since they do not have a share certificate or HL either they do not accept what I am saying.

    Now, 2 Directors have appointed without consent 3 Directors who do not own apartments in our blocks. Our status as shareholders with rights have been ignored - no votes, no communication, no minutes etc. They sacked the MA without shareholder knowledge and these latter 3 are running the whole site of 288 apartments and 3management Coys. themselves. They are demanding Ground Rent from us but the HL states that only a peppercorn was ever payable. There are serious concerns about where the service chargemoney is being paid into. No Accounts for 2007 circulated and the AGM was 26 Sept. 07 and no Minutes.

    The Directors have apparently embarked without anyconsultation on legal action against the Superior Landlord (Govt's Regeneration Arm) for faults with the design of the buildings. Nothing in writing to us.

    2 weeks ago an EGM was held without an agenda. Those who attended from all the management coys. on site were asked to pledge £500 per apartment towards legal costs - about £20,000 was pledged but only about one sixths of site attended. No Minutes.

    I have informed Solicitors hired by the Directors that I have not entered into any agreement with them. I have not paid any service charge for 18 months because in spite of sending letters to the MA initially and then to the debit collecting solicitor that I want info. on where the money is being paid and on what it is being spent on plus also I have concerns that all the money from the 3 management coys. isbeing paid into the same account I havenever in all these years received any response.

    I fear that my management company may already be insolvent because of the pledge. Every lawfirm I haveapproached do not understand this type of property ownership because it is rare in this area but common Ibelieve in Leeds and also tell me they will only act on behalf of all the shareholders. Most of the apartments are BTLs and the share register has not been kept up to date and possible the shared ownership in the managedment co. has been lost. What should I do?

    #2
    1. You relate to company in two ways: as underlessee and as member.
    2. Underlessee: co. seems not to have complied with underlease and/or s.18-s.30 of LTA 1985. You can take action in your own right to restrain these misdeeds.
    3. Member: directors may or may not have convened illegal meeting. Again, you can take action (against them or against co.) under Companies Act 1985 or 2006.
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
      1. You relate to company in two ways: as underlessee and as member.
      2. Underlessee: co. seems not to have complied with underlease and/or s.18-s.30 of LTA 1985. You can take action in your own right to restrain these misdeeds.
      3. Member: directors may or may not have convened illegal meeting. Again, you can take action (against them or against co.) under Companies Act 1985 or 2006.
      That is the theory jeffrey but tell me more of the practice as a shareholder and leaseholder in another mismanaged residents management company.

      What documents have to be served, what court is such a case usually heard in and what does it cost.

      The theory of being able to fight things and the practicalities are in my experience two entirely different matters. My directors went ahead with electing directors that they had not given the required 14 days (under Table A) notice of nominations to the AGM for this year but what would I actually have to do in order to get these directors disqualified?

      Comment


        #4
        Mismanaged management company

        Thank you Jeffrey for the points in law. However, echoing the next response - what do I actually do bearing in mind I am looking to protect myself and my property ownership.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Kizzie2 View Post
          Thank you Jeffrey for the points in law. However, echoing the next response - what do I actually do bearing in mind I am looking to protect myself and my property ownership.
          You'd have to take action, just like I explained. Ask Court to make Co. pay your fees too!
          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
            You'd have to take action, just like I explained. Ask Court to make Co. pay your fees too!
            I have never heard of any leaseholder who has been successful in bring a landlord to book for ignoring Compnies Act type requirements though.

            Of course Jeffrey has a vested interest as all recommendations to rush to your solicitor further enhances the income of solicitors and barristers. Back in the real world the affordability of going to a solicitor and battling all the way through to a court case becomes a very major issue. It is easy to spend £5k to £15k on legal action to remedy problems with leases if you give solicitors a completely free hand.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by LongsufferingLeaseholder View Post
              I have never heard of any leaseholder who has been successful in bring a landlord to book for ignoring Compnies Act type requirements though.

              Of course Jeffrey has a vested interest as all recommendations to rush to your solicitor further enhances the income of solicitors and barristers. Back in the real world the affordability of going to a solicitor and battling all the way through to a court case becomes a very major issue. It is easy to spend £5k to £15k on legal action to remedy problems with leases if you give solicitors a completely free hand.
              You are of course wrong (as I never advised reference to a solicitor, did I?) and libellous (as usual; good job that I am long-suffering too).
              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

              Comment


                #8
                Mismanaged management company

                "........ the freehold reversion creates a registered title quite separate from existing leasehold"

                I only discovered that I have the reversionary freehold because I was unintentionally given a copy of an internal memo dated 2005 between the ex-MA's Solicitor and his Property Manager referring to the transfer of the Reversionary Freehold. At thesame time I was given an partially completed but unsigned TR1 and a letter from the Lessors Solicitors to the MAs Solicitor.
                I read in another thread about the separate registered title for this RF but I have had no information since I purchased in 2003. The HL refers to the Transfer on sale of last apartment (2005) All the share certs were sent direct to the mortgage coys. so almost all the 93 apt. owners do not know that they have the reversionary freehold - some properties have been sold with the certificate being forwarded to the new owners mortgage company. I discovered mine only when I transferred the mortgage and specifically asked the solicitor to look for the certificate as did one other shareholder.

                In the above thread you said that the 'Lessor' was still involved. My HL says that the Lessor is a charity and this charity told me in 2005 thatthey had severed all connection with our Management Co.and refused to answer my letter asking them for the actual date of the transfer of assets. I am now getting so upset about the sheer enormity and complication of it all. I also do not know if there was or is a sinking fund or if there was ever any money paid in.

                So I know it seems a really thick question to ask but do I just walk into the local Court and tell them I have a really big problem?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Look: you need legal advice to resolve this mess in which you've been landed. Disregard the ill-informed comments and calumny from "LongsufferingLeaseholder"!
                  You'll need to verify precisely who owns what (and possibly to rectify the freehold reversionary title, if this is defective; or to stamp/register the Transfer form TR1, if that was not done before).
                  JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                  1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                  2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                  3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                  4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Kizzie2 View Post
                    The HL refers to the Transfer on sale of last apartment (2005) All the share certs were sent direct to the mortgage coys. so almost all the 93 apt. owners do not know that they have the reversionary freehold - some properties have been sold with the certificate being forwarded to the new owners mortgage company. I discovered mine only when I transferred the mortgage and specifically asked the solicitor to look for the certificate as did one other shareholder.?
                    But what Jeffrey ignores is that you are only in this mess because of members of the solicitor conveyancing profession less conscientious than jeffrey quite clearly is not doing their job properly.

                    Now jeffrey recommends you engage another solicitor to put right the original solicitor's mess. Then even if you raise a complaint with the new solicitors regulation authority and win it is unlikely you will be awarded compensation equivalent to your costs in putting the mess right with your new solicitor.

                    In short its a win, win, win world for jeffrey and the other members of his profession and a lose, lose, world for the leaseholder. You will note that jeffrey is fast to suggest that if a leaseholder ever screws up they have their lease forfeited. But is a solicitor ever disbarred for screwing up with poor advice to a leaseholder. No of course not. They aren't even fined double the cost and inconvenience they have caused you the leaseholder to try and prevent it happening again.

                    All of these nightmares are inherent in being a leaseholder. I have just had to pay the www.landregistryonline.gov.uk website to establish that my residents management company is actually now the freeholder as they have claimed to be but have never provided any documented proof of.

                    If you want to avoid these nightmares become a freeholder in a house of some kind. It is the only way to avoid the nightmare that is leasehold flat tenure.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      1. Does LongsufferingLeaseholder know that it was not a Licensed Conveyancer who caused the problem, then?
                      2. I have never suggested, as far as I know, that forfeiture is a reasonable or justifiable remedy. Only LongsufferingLeaseholder markets that view so as to knock it down.
                      3. Solicitors ARE struck-off for inadequate and unrectified errors, in conveyancing and other fields.
                      4. Leasehold is not a 'nightmare' IF each person carries out his or her allotted role efficiently and adequately. We have never yet heard what LongsufferingLeaseholder's occupation is (i.e. when he/she is not actively defaming me) but I bet that his/her trade profession or vocation includes a greater proportion of poor workers than the legal profession does.
                      JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                      1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                      2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                      3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                      4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Check with the Housing Corporation or the Charity Commission

                        Hi

                        When you say the developer is is a Charity this raises the possibility of 2 options. If the developer is a Registered Social Landlord (RSL) then all their actions are governed and regulated by the Housing Corporation. They can be contacted on 0845 230 7000. You can check whether the organisation is an RSL on the Housing Corporation website http://www.housingcorp.gov.uk/server...conWebDoc.1134

                        If it is not a Registered Social Landlord then it is worth following up with the Charities Commission http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/ as they regulate the activity of all registered charities.

                        Both sorts of organisation are strictly regulated and the kind of behaviour you have suggested would be frowned upon.

                        Hope this helps and good luck
                        Kelly

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