No pets clause and a small dog for 3 weeks in a year

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    No pets clause and a small dog for 3 weeks in a year

    I have made an offer on a flat and the estate agent says there is a no pets clause in a lease. My intention is to rent the flat to students over the year on an 11 months contract, and then during 1 month in summer to live there myself (doing any renovations necessary to prepare the flat for the next year rental). Unfortunately I have a small dog, who will be coming with me when I will be living in the flat. The dog is small and well behaved, and I will only be there for approximately 2 or 3 weeks in a year so I am planning to go ahead with the purchase and keep my head down while being in the flat, in the hope that the management company will not notice the pet. If they do notice, does anyone know what steps they would take? I presume they would first write me a letter - does anyone know approximately how much time I might be given in that letter to remove the flat?

    Many thanks in advance for any comments!

    #2
    What else are you going to hide from them?

    Whilst, I'd think that the manger would be more concerned about the student let, I feel there is too much of an attitude that anything is OK these days if you don't get caught/no action is taken against you.

    I would suggest making your case to the freeholder and seeing see if they agree to waiving the restriction.

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      #3
      So you are someone who signs agreements/contracts and then thinks that you don't have to honor your word. Not nice. Imagine everyone else behaved in the same way.

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        #4
        Originally posted by ulanata View Post
        hope that the management company will not notice the pet.
        The management of the "Flat company" - not the agent, if the leaseholders there are directors of the companny living there and even other leaseholders will certainly notice, and all would report you have not got permission to keep a pet.

        You also cannot allow your dog out to foul the drive / garden either.

        In my capacity, I would not allow students, as it's a resiential area ( where I am ) and students are known to be untidy, don't know what bins to use.
        Assume you have told the agent that you want students full time and a dog for 3 weeks?
        They will then pass that onto the freeholder who can reject your proposal.

        They can also reject it on the reason that this is a second property and you wont be able to pay the service charges from your wages, if you get no rent !

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          #5
          And apart from anything else, how do you know that student tenancies will not breach the building insurance?

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            #6
            many thanks everyone for the response, I will consider all the above. Unfortunately, I don't have the actual lease yet so I don't know if it says anything about the student rentals, but hopefully not - it is a two-bedroom flat which I will be renting to the University on a single AST for 11 months, and the university will then sub-let it to 2 students. So it won't be an HMO-type property and I don't think this type of rental could be prohibited as it is no difference to renting it to 2 young professionals in my view. I will also try to get a consent for the dog, but not sure I will succeed in this. Unfortunately, I can't find other property in my price range in that area that would allow dogs in the lease - I have been looking for the last 12 months or so...

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              #7
              Nice idea but....

              a) Breaching lease in theory leaves you open to having the lease forfeit, no money back to you, no flat: (unlikely but possible).
              b) Great example to set your tenants: Sign a contract then ignore the conditions: How would you feel if tenants didn't say pay rent or wrecked the place or had raucous all-night parties every weekend??
              c) What makes you think the students will leave after 11 months? They have the absolute right (Thatcher's 1988 Housing Act) to continue the tenancy, as monthly periodic: They do not have to get your permission. You cannot (may not, legally impossible to prevent) stop this happening. They do not even have to give any notice of doing so.

              Solution is simple: Put rover in kennels:

              errr... just read
              it is a two-bedroom flat which I will be renting to the University on a single AST for 11 months, and the university will then sub-let it to 2 students....
              No you won't. If you rent to University it cannot be (may not be , legally impossible to be..) an AST. Also very (VERY!) unlikely any mortgage would permit this, unlikely most insurance policies would cover it: [So, place burns down, student's 'orribly maimed, you get sued by students for £100ks and have no money back for flat: Perhaps an unwise business strategy but, hey, free country!]

              (c) above perhaps not the case if student's landlord is University.
              I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

              Comment


                #8
                In the first place this sounds like a pretty bad business strategy. It is pretty much never a good idea to rent to a third party agent.

                Second it is irrelevant whether it is your "view" that it is "no difference to renting it to 2 young professionals in my view" unless you can get the insurers to share that view, and if the other lessees don't share that view you will get a great deal of troubles.

                Anyhow if you think letting to a couple of students via a third party agent is kind of equivalent to letting to 2 young professionals, I suspect some bumps in the road are yet to be discovered. Good luck with that.

                Depending on what the lease says, it may not just be the managing agent that gives consent for your pet, but every other lessee (and that consent can be withdrawn).

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                  #9
                  It's impossible to let on an AST to a corporate person. They must be natural (real humans) and they must actually live in the place. A university meets neither of those requirements.

                  Some leases will insist on ASTs, in which case your proposal will breach the lease.

                  With an actual AST, there is no guarantee that you will be able to gain access during your one month a year. That's technically true even the university sub-lets using an AST.

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                    #10
                    if it was my flat, I'd move heaven and earth to get you out and then sue for breach of contract. Some people hate dogs and, although you're not one of them, your landlord might be.

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                      #11
                      Thank you very much everyone, I will have to think about this again then. I am just not sure at the moment what should my best course of action be - the intention behind this flat purchase is not to get a bit profit out of it, but rather to have a place I can stay for 3 weeks in August (for personal reasons I have to be in that area 3 hours away from my home town for approximately 3 weeks every August, and this is likely to continue for the next 7-8 years), the idea of renting it to students is just to cover the costs of the mortgage, and I was told by several people that in that particular area students usually rent on an 11-months contracts. For the last couple of years I really struggled to find short-term accommodation in the area - it is very expensive at that time and almost impossible to find the property that would allow dogs (I can see why now - I have been looking to buy for the last 12 months and I first was set on finding something with no dogs restriction son the lease, and mothing in my price range came up). So this is why I am now thinking that I could be lucky and the neighbours won't mind my dog for 3 weeks, and therefore the management company will not notice. And if they will, by the time I receive the letter about it, it may be already time for me to go back home anyway. I don't like this plan, but run out of ideas how to do it better at the moment.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post
                        So you are someone who signs agreements/contracts and then thinks that you don't have to honor your word. Not nice. Imagine everyone else behaved in the same way.
                        To be fair..I'm aware Im in possible breach of the lease and Id guess that many perhaps even the majority are at some time or another, my lease doesnt allow banging of carpets outside, playing of pianolas and all sorts of wierdness.

                        But as suggested normally FHs would be more worried about subletting...but I can foresee a scenario where neighbours already annoyed by nosiy student lets hear a dog barking and thats the last straw and they bring it to the attention of the FH.

                        As its only 3 weeks a year there may well be a way round this but also bear in mind as a Landlord yourself you will also have to demand that your lets have no pets ! (As you would be responsible for any breaches by your tenants).
                        Advice given is based on my experience representing myself as a leaseholder both in the County Court and at Leasehold Valuation Tribunals.

                        I do not accept any liability to you in relation to the advice given.

                        It is always recommended you seek further advice from a solicitor or legal expert.

                        Always read your lease first, it is the legally binding contract between leaseholder and freeholder.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by tatemono View Post
                          if it was my flat, I'd move heaven and earth to get you out and then sue for breach of contract. Some people hate dogs and, although you're not one of them, your landlord might be.
                          Sue for breach of contract ?. This isnt how LH law operates. Forfeiture would be that only path available.......this is a very high stakes and as such many LH may not want to go down this route over what could be a minor breach (although I appreciate this isnt always the case).
                          Advice given is based on my experience representing myself as a leaseholder both in the County Court and at Leasehold Valuation Tribunals.

                          I do not accept any liability to you in relation to the advice given.

                          It is always recommended you seek further advice from a solicitor or legal expert.

                          Always read your lease first, it is the legally binding contract between leaseholder and freeholder.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            oh yeah didn't realise it was LH sorry... not something I ever want to have to learn about...

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by ulanata View Post
                              .......... in that particular area students usually rent on an 11-months contracts. ..........
                              Yes, but the law says they ddon't have to leave at end of 11 months: They usually do, sometimes they don't (so no 3-week stay for you, BIG BIG problem if you've signed up new tenants..)

                              I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                              Comment

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