LA and tenants details

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    LA and tenants details

    Hi, Can a Letting Agent refuse to give the Landlord the tenants phone number?

    #2
    More to the point why would they?

    I'd be more worried what the agent is hiding in refusing to pass on contact details.

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks for reply
      They just say they can not give it without the tenants permission and the tenant says no.
      I just wanted something concrete to say that they are wrong, after all why should they have the info when I own the house ?

      Comment


        #4
        Is this some "guaranteed rent" scheme/scam?? If so check your agreement - your tenant may be the agent & they can rent to who they chose (within agreement terms)

        If not, instruct agent to provide copies of ALL documents then, IMHO, instruct tenant to start paying you direct & fire agent
        I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

        Comment


          #5
          No it's not a scam, the tenant has been served notice as the house has to be sold, all we wanted to do was get an agent in to value the property and measure up ready to sell.
          The agent first said they would give the selling agent the number, they havent and are now saying they wont give it to us either( the Landlord) without permission.

          Comment


            #6
            This agent has no motivation to help you.

            Unless (unlikely) there is a suitable clause in tenancy tenant is not obliged to permit viewings, valuations, surveys etc etc...

            Likely eviction time 40+ weeks...
            http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ess-statistics
            I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

            Comment


              #7
              Isn't the agent employed by you though?

              Whatever information they have on the tenant has surely been collected on your behalf and for your benefit.

              I understand why they are being obstructive as the property is being sold with no benefit to them, however if you delve deep enough into your contract there is bound to be something there that you can highlight.

              Comment


                #8
                The agent is hiding behind Data Protection (and will probably be successful in 99% of such attempts).

                Your best tack (oither than googling, 192.com or directory enquiries (which is where I'd start) is to point out that the data collected about the tenant was collected on your behalf, which makes the agent a data processor, not data collector for this data.
                They should therefore make it available to you when instructed.
                If they sound hesitent, ask for their data processing registration details (or the details of their data controller) so you can check things out with the Informaiton Commissioner's Office.
                The ICO has already ruled that estate and letting agents collecting data about clients for their principle are allowed to supply it, provided, when it was collected, they advised the client it would possibly be passed on.
                Making the client aware is therefore routine practice and the agent should do that as a matter of course.

                None of which is likely to be the slightest help getting the information you require, and I would resign myself to communicating with the client in writing - they'll get fed up of that soon enough and give you some other way to contact them.
                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                  The ICO has already ruled that estate and letting agents collecting data about clients for their principle are allowed to supply it, provided, when it was collected, they advised the client it would possibly be passed on.
                  That's not a ruling and that's incorrect.

                  The agent works on behalf of his agent and everything he collects belong to his principal. Now, it is indeed a best practice to make that clear to tenants but that does not allow agents to refuse to share information.

                  Also, tenants are not the agent's clients.

                  Here the agent has no right to refuse and, IMO, should be sacked. I would start by instructing the tenant to pay me the rent directly.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Because Tenant is being evicted & place sold agent has no incentive, no future commission, no upside to helping.

                    Whilst legally he must provide information, realistically he's not going to. Go round him but, as advised earlier, don't expect tenant to assist or move when you want them to
                    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post
                      That's not a ruling and that's incorrect.

                      The agent works on behalf of his agent and everything he collects belong to his principal. Now, it is indeed a best practice to make that clear to tenants but that does not allow agents to refuse to share information.
                      https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/housing/landlords/
                      That's the ICO's statement on the issue.

                      The landlord would have to show that any data was collected by the agent at the instigation of the landlord, and not collected for the agent's own use.
                      The general relationship of agent is not sufficient to establish that the agent is the landlord's data processor for all personal data collected about a tenant - the data protection act and the principles of agency aren't really compatible.

                      On the other hand, the agent here is simply being obstructive - they're hiding behinfd data protection as if they a) had any clue what the actual position is or b) comply with the DPA generally.
                      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                        https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/housing/landlords/
                        That's the ICO's statement on the issue.
                        That's just what have been quoted earlier...


                        Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                        The landlord would have to show that any data was collected by the agent at the instigation of the landlord, and not collected for the agent's own use.
                        The general relationship of agent is not sufficient to establish that the agent is the landlord's data processor for all personal data collected about a tenant - the data protection act and the principles of agency aren't really compatible.
                        These are extremely bold claims. Can you quote the authority for them?

                        By definition what the agent collects is collected on behalf of the landlord, in the same way as an employee is an agent of his employer.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post
                          These are extremely bold claims. Can you quote the authority for them?
                          The definitions of data processor and data controller are pretty clear.

                          “data controller” means, subject to subsection (4), a person who (either alone or jointly or in common with other persons) determines the purposes for which and the manner in which any personal data are, or are to be, processed;
                          “data processor”, in relation to personal data, means any person (other than an employee of the data controller) who processes the data on behalf of the data controller;

                          A landlord doesn't necessarily determine which data is to be collected and processed (and, if they did make such an assertion, would also have to be registered with the ICO as a data controller - and, being honest, who is?).
                          How many landlords agree with their letting agent (let alone define) what data is to be collected and how it is to be processed?

                          And, if they do regard the agent as a date processor (which gives them the right of access to the personal data collected) they are required to have a written agreement to that effect, with specific provisions (which almost no one does, in any walk of life).

                          The agency relationship doesn't equate to that of an employee for the purposes of data protection - there's no equivalence, one is either an employee or not - "any person (other than an employee of the data controller)"

                          As I said, data protection legislation (which is essentially european regulations cut and pasted into UK law) are incompatible with lots of other UK law, including that of agency, a relationship they don't consider.
                          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The fact that most landlords do not register with the ICO does not imply that they do not have to and has no relevance.

                            The landlord being the principal of his agent, he must be deemed the data controller as he is the one instructing the agent even if a landlord often let his agent apply his standard procedure (but that's a matter of poor business practice, not of legal framework).

                            The landlord cannot be deemed a third party and the law does take agency into account.

                            In any case, the agent is not prevented by law from disclosing data to his principal, quite the opposite. Even if he was and did not take steps to deal with it (informing the tenant that date would be shareD) then he would be in breach of his fiduciary duty to his principal and the landlord would take action against him.

                            The real issue is that most landlords and, worryingly, most agents do not understand what an 'agent' is.

                            Comment

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