Absolutely incompetent agents

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    #16
    Ok so notice to end tenancy has been issued incorrectly then?
    Does this mean I can not start court proceedings until November 17th (in the event the tenant stays put)? Or do I now have to re-issue a fresh notice? I guess the starting point would be requesting a copy of the notice letter sent by the agency as they confirmed verbally they did this.
    If he does leave on the 30th, he still owes me rent from the 18th October to the 30th, can I deduct from deposit?
    I still view all of this as a tenant, and to me I have to be out on November 4th, I wouldnt overstay even if it meant having to stay with relatives but I guess in theory I could just stay put! Thnaks for your advice.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
      More or less, yes: why are you blaming them for the fact that you did not know that your T did not intend to vacate on 18th?
      Neither more nor less, but not at all.

      The fact that OP seems under the impression that Ts must leave when notice expires (and that he blames the agent for not telling him that Ts did not intend to) does not mean that I implied that they had to leave. It is clear from the other things I have written in this thread - from #2 onwards - that I do not think that. Nitpicking other people's posts yet again - please stop it.
      'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by eyes on horizon View Post
        Ok so notice to end tenancy has been issued incorrectly then?
        That depends on the exact wording used on the s21 notice - there may have been some 'catch all' saving text.
        Does this mean I can not start court proceedings until November 17th (in the event the tenant stays put)? Or do I now have to re-issue a fresh notice?
        If it is wrong then you need to issue a fresh s21
        I guess the starting point would be requesting a copy of the notice letter sent by the agency as they confirmed verbally they did this.
        A very wise idea
        If he does leave on the 30th, he still owes me rent from the 18th October to the 30th, can I deduct from deposit?
        The tenant owes rent up until he leaves, indeed he may owe rent beyond that if he leaves mid-tenancy month.
        I still view all of this as a tenant, and to me I have to be out on November 4th, I wouldnt overstay
        You may think you are regarding this from the tenants PoV - but they have rights which need to be respected, they are under NO obligation to leave just because it is inconvenient for you.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by eyes on horizon View Post
          The tenancy started on April 7 2006 for one year. The tenancy agreement is unsigned by the tenant, the agency, and neither my wife nor I.
          It rolled on month to month since then.
          I accquired the property in June this year thru divorce proceedings via title deed transfer TR1 (my exwife dealt with the property I had no involvement other than being on deed) It has taken me up to August to get any information from the letting agency, complicates that my exwife is best mates with one of the agents.
          There is no contract with the agency.
          Tenant was served S21 on August 18 to vacate october 18
          You say that, up to June this year, you had no involvement with the property "other than being on the deed".
          So did the unsigned tenancy agreement not name you at all?
          Has the tenant been informed, in writing either by the agent or by you yourself, that your are their landlord?

          Comment


            #20
            Sad S raises a good point. As OP is now the LL presumably all the responsibilities and obligations of a LL fall to him to comply with and he will need to check that he has complied with?

            Does he have to make any changes to the deposit paperwork? Are all and any safety certificates or checks up to date?

            If one party was so minded, what a way to mess up an ex partners life by giving them a property or a tenancy that requires work.

            pm
            Before acting on forum advice, you may wish to consult an expert, someone who has all the relevant facts, and who accepts liability for their advice.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Sad S View Post
              Has the tenant been informed, in writing either by the agent or by you yourself, that your are their landlord?
              Yes, very good point.

              T must be served with notices under s.48 LTA1987 and under s.3 of LTA 1985, with former LL's Letter of Authority. I doubt a s.21 served by new LL would be valid until T had been served with aforementioned notices.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                Neither more nor less, but not at all.

                The fact that OP seems under the impression that Ts must leave when notice expires (and that he blames the agent for not telling him that Ts did not intend to) does not mean that I implied that they had to leave. It is clear from the other things I have written in this thread - from #2 onwards - that I do not think that. Nitpicking other people's posts yet again - please stop it.
                In what way does your rant assist OP? It's for you to stop ranting unconstructively.
                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by westminster View Post
                  Yes, very good point.

                  T must be served with notices under s.48 LTA1987 and under s.3 of LTA 1985, with former LL's Letter of Authority. I doubt a s.21 served by new LL would be valid until T had been served with aforementioned notices.
                  I agree. T should not recognise new L's rights at all otherwise; for all T knows, "new L" is a scammer.
                  JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                  1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                  2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                  3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                  4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                    In what way does your rant assist OP?
                    No more or less than your nitpicking ever does. I don't take it personally, because you do it to lots of people, but it is annoying. However, please be assured that it takes more than mild irritation with you (which can be an occupational hazard of contributing to this forum!), to move me to rant! Apart from anything else, ranting is charcterised by irrationality and a lack of textual cohesion; my post displays neither of these. It simply states the reasons why your post could be seen as nitpicking. No rant! Look :smiling face .
                    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                    Comment


                      #25
                      well... all of this is very valid and all new info!!
                      The tenancy agreement is between Mr & Mrs XXXX. I am the Mr so I assume this is ok. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.

                      As I have stated I know NOTHING about any of this so was trusting the agents are giving me valid guidance on the situation. I obtained the house in the divorce, my exwife dealt with all of the property previously. Requested the tenancy agreement to find out when I could serve notice and as it was a SPT I served 2 months notice. Had it been freshly signed for another year or 6 months I would have honoured that term as well. The agency actually served the notice, it was not direct from me.
                      The deposit is held by the agency. there is no paperwork around this other than what is stated on the tenancy agreement and a reciept given to the tenant. And now it appears that the inventory has been misplaced by the agency.
                      I am in the process of drafting a letter to the agency and need to confirm I am asking them for everything:

                      -copy of the notice letter
                      -copy of the inventory (altho been told on the phone its misplaced)
                      -confirmation the deposit is held by them
                      -any other paperwork relating to the property

                      I am anticipating that a lot of this will be MIA, but if anyone can give any further advice that would be great.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Also to get my head around all of this..if I had to start from scratch on this whole process, could someone let me know if the below is correct:

                        -issue notice, in writing, to the tenant the day before the TA is dated (Nov 17th) 2 months notice based on the fact I have to move back in, and perhaps to avoid any confusion get my ex wife to sign the notice letter. Is a recorded letter suitable?
                        -if he fails to leave after the two months, Jan 18th, then can I apply to the courts for a possession order?

                        Comment


                          #27
                          L cannot serve a s.21 Notice before the relevant AST is dated/begins.
                          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                            L cannot serve a s.21 Notice before the relevant AST is dated/begins.
                            This isn't what the OP means.

                            Originally posted by eyes on horizon View Post
                            Right, TA is actually dated 18/04/2006.
                            He just means he's been told (correctly) that the s.21 must expire 'after 17th [month]' - (and to him, the 17th is 'the day before the TA is dated').

                            Comment


                              #29
                              The real question is this:
                              Originally posted by eyes on horizon View Post
                              The tenancy agreement is between Mr & Mrs XXXX. I am the Mr so I assume this is ok. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.
                              As far as I can gather, the title of the property is now owned exclusively by OP, Mr XXXX. So, as Mr XXXX was previously one of joint LLs, is it necessary to serve T with notice of 'change of LL' from Mr & Mrs XXXX to Mr XXXX? Or can Mr XXXX proceed immediately with serving s.21, naming himself as sole LL?

                              Comment


                                #30
                                'Mr & Mrs' are not the same as 'Mr' alone; so he does need either:
                                a. to proceed in joint names, with Mrs co-signing everything; or
                                b. to notify T of sole ownership [s.3 of LTA 1985] before proceeding in sole name.
                                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                                Comment

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