Leak from upstairs - excess £5,000

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  • boletus
    replied
    See the stickies in the 'insurance questions' forum;

    https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/fo...eaks-in-Flats=

    Leave a comment:


  • Moderator2
    replied
    Originally posted by gnvqsos View Post

    Sorry but a person should not make assertions about things they do not understand-is your doctor qualified or a personnwho likes to speculate about yiur health using guess work?
    You don't have the option to assess the standard of replies from other forum members, you can discuss the technicalities of replies, but don’t get into questioning another member’s credibility.

    These are discussion forums where members have a wide variety of knowledge and expertise, but as with many other public forums, someone seeking free advice from a number of strangers should be very careful in how they apply that advice.

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    Originally posted by gnvqsos View Post
    I differ from you in that I would not offer advice or an opinion in areas where I lack either expertise and/or experience. However if an owner fits own pipework and omit inserts this is surely negligent ie should have employed a qualified plumber.I have trained and qualified as a plumber and therefore can offer definitive advice and not guesswork.If you wish to indulge in guesswork from time to time I will not upset you by challenging what you write.
    The question is not about plumbing, it's a question is about insurance, liability and responsibility in a shared building.

    Leave a comment:


  • gnvqsos
    replied
    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
    This is a forum, where people offer advice.
    You'd be mad to take personal medical advice from a forum.

    I am not a plumber, but the question isn't about plumbing.
    It's about insurance and the liability of people living in blocks of flats.
    I know quite a lot about that.

    If you don't agree with my posts, feel free to say so.
    But questioning my right to have an opinion doesn't make a lot of sense.
    I differ from you in that I would not offer advice or an opinion in areas where I lack either expertise and/or experience.However if an owner fits own pipework and omit inserts this is surely negligent ie should have employed a qualified plumber.I have trained and qualified as a plumber and therefore can offer definitive advice and not guesswork.If you wish to indulge in guesswork from time to time I will not upset you by challenging what you write.

    Leave a comment:


  • AndrewDod
    replied
    Originally posted by Section20z View Post
    That's why you have cover.
    Except that is not what happens in practice. After 3 or 4 water leak related claims your insurer (and any other insurer you try) will exclude all water related claims from the policy - or set the water claims excess at £20,000.

    So effectively you will have no cover. Whatever the obligation of FH to insure, there will be no cover.

    Leave a comment:


  • Section20z
    replied
    Originally posted by Flashback1966 View Post
    I am writing this on behalf of another landlord. There was a water leak from upstairs. Insurance were notified, but the excess was £5,000. This is in high end tower block, but rather dated.

    Who pays for the repair for water leak?
    As stated elsewhere the excess comes from the service charge as landlord insures comprehensively.
    Anyone who has a claim denied due to lack of negligence or act of God needs to find a new insurer.
    We use Aviva flats policy and water leaks are the most common cause of claim and I have never had them try to blame a dodgyplumber or malevolent deity.
    That's why you have cover.

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    Originally posted by gnvqsos View Post
    Sorry but a person should not make assertions about things they do not understand-is your doctor qualified or a person who likes to speculate about yiur health using guess work?
    This is a forum, where people offer advice.
    You'd be mad to take personal medical advice from a forum.

    I am not a plumber, but the question isn't about plumbing.
    It's about insurance and the liability of people living in blocks of flats.
    I know quite a lot about that.

    If you don't agree with my posts, feel free to say so.
    But questioning my right to have an opinion doesn't make a lot of sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • AndrewDod
    replied
    Originally posted by gnvqsos View Post

    Sorry but a person should not make assertions about things they do not understand-is your doctor qualified or a personnwho likes to speculate about yiur health using guess work?
    This is really silly. Nobody speculated about anything they do not understand.

    Leave a comment:


  • gnvqsos
    replied
    Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post

    You seem to respond to all issues the same was - "Are you a member of staff at HMRC etc". Think of different approach.

    Nobody disagrees with you that lousy plumbing creates a risk. But unfortunately people who get lousy work done or maintain less get away with it because the system says they were not negligent -- so the victim is the one who suffers. I think it's totally wrong. But is the way it is.

    Whether JP is a plumber is completely irrelevant. I happen to disagree with him (I think) that this is a massive problem and a totally bad thing. But he is correct about what is.
    Sorry but a person should not make assertions about things they do not understand-is your doctor qualified or a personnwho likes to speculate about yiur health using guess work?

    Leave a comment:


  • AndrewDod
    replied
    Originally posted by gnvqsos View Post

    Are you a plumber.If pipes are not soldered properly than they will fail-copper is less vulnerable than lead.You can saw a cross section of copper to determine tightness.
    You seem to respond to all issues the same was - "Are you a member of staff at HMRC etc". Think of different approach.

    Nobody disagrees with you that lousy plumbing creates a risk. But unfortunately people who get lousy work done or maintain less get away with it because the system says they were not negligent -- so the victim is the one who suffers. I think it's totally wrong. But is the way it is.

    Whether JP is a plumber is completely irrelevant. I happen to disagree with him (I think) that this is a massive problem and a totally bad thing. But he is correct about what is.

    Leave a comment:


  • gnvqsos
    replied
    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
    There's no way of knowing that the plumbing is defective, and there's no reason to assume it is.
    Sometimes things just go wrong, pipes leak, joints move.

    And, even if the plumbing is defective, that doesn't mean the owner was negligent.
    If the plumbing was installed when the building was built, who's to blame thirty years later?
    If the owner had some plumbing done, provided they took some care to pick a professional plumber, they're not going to know that a pipe has no inserts.
    Are you a plumber.If pipes are not soldered properly than they will fail-copper is less vulnerable than lead.You can saw a cross section of copper to determine tightness.

    Leave a comment:


  • AndrewDod
    replied
    Bottom line, if you are in an upstairs flat and want to cause some problems, quietly disconnect a pipe and go away for a few days. You'll get a free refurbishment of your own flat (you will pay a small proportion), your downstairs neighbour will face 20K of damages and everyone in the building will have a large insurance premium for the next 5 years (or will be uninsurable).

    Think it doesn't happen? Happened in a building where I have a flat. Twice. Everyone in the building knew what had happened. The perpetrator (who was one of the directors didn't let anyone know what insurance claim had been placed and by the time we discovered 5 years later the insurers showed no interest.

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    Originally posted by gnvqsos View Post
    Surely the occupant could be occupying a property where the owner has installed substandard plumbing eg defective flexi-connectors,push-fit plastic pipe with no inserts and so on?How can the person below prove negligence when they cannot access to inspect.I would imagine many insurance companies would investigate-what do you think?
    There's no way of knowing that the plumbing is defective, and there's no reason to assume it is.
    Sometimes things just go wrong, pipes leak, joints move.

    And, even if the plumbing is defective, that doesn't mean the owner was negligent.
    If the plumbing was installed when the building was built, who's to blame thirty years later?
    If the owner had some plumbing done, provided they took some care to pick a professional plumber, they're not going to know that a pipe has no inserts.

    Leave a comment:


  • AndrewDod
    replied
    Originally posted by gnvqsos View Post
    An act of God is an unforseen event-a good plumber would forsee problems if pipework etc is assembled using defective materials and/or techniques.
    I'm not saying I think it is an act of god (quite the reverse). But unfortunately the insurers see it that way.

    Leave a comment:


  • gnvqsos
    replied
    An act of God is an unforseen event-a good plumber would forsee problems if pipework etc is assembled using defective materials and/or techniques.

    Leave a comment:

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