Leak from upstairs - excess £5,000

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    Leak from upstairs - excess £5,000

    I am writing this on behalf of another landlord. There was a water leak from upstairs. Insurance were notified, but the excess was £5,000. This is in high end tower block, but rather dated.

    Who pays for the repair for water leak?


    #2
    The LL or tenant of the property where the leak occurred, depending on whether tenant or property was at fault.

    Comment


      #3
      Unless the downstairs flat owner can prove that there was negligence on the part of the upstairs occupant it's their (downstairs) responsibility to repair their own damage,
      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

      Comment


        #4
        Most leases require the l/l to insure comprehensively, such leases were drawn long before the era of £5,000 excesses on escapes of water. You could therefore look to the landlord for theuninsured excess.

        The landlord has covenanted to insure comprehensively and might pay and debit the service charge; or recover from the flat above that caused the mischief. But not guaranteed this would succeed!

        Comment


          #5
          The victim pays.

          This whole area is a massive loophole in the law/insurance setups/lease construction.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
            Unless the downstairs flat owner can prove that there was negligence on the part of the upstairs occupant it's their (downstairs) responsibility to repair their own damage,
            Surely the occupant could be occupying a property where the owner has installed substandard plumbing eg defective flexi-connectors,push-fit plastic pipe with no inserts and so on?How can the person below prove negligence when they cannot access to inspect.I would imagine many insurance companies would investigate-what do you think?

            Comment


              #7
              Substandard plumbing is an act of god. Even letting your bath overflow is an act of god unless you do it deliberately. They don't care about negligence (to some extent a leak is ALWAYS negligence anyway).

              As I said, the victim pays generally. It's a bad setup.

              Comment


                #8
                An act of God is an unforseen event-a good plumber would forsee problems if pipework etc is assembled using defective materials and/or techniques.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by gnvqsos View Post
                  An act of God is an unforseen event-a good plumber would forsee problems if pipework etc is assembled using defective materials and/or techniques.
                  I'm not saying I think it is an act of god (quite the reverse). But unfortunately the insurers see it that way.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by gnvqsos View Post
                    Surely the occupant could be occupying a property where the owner has installed substandard plumbing eg defective flexi-connectors,push-fit plastic pipe with no inserts and so on?How can the person below prove negligence when they cannot access to inspect.I would imagine many insurance companies would investigate-what do you think?
                    There's no way of knowing that the plumbing is defective, and there's no reason to assume it is.
                    Sometimes things just go wrong, pipes leak, joints move.

                    And, even if the plumbing is defective, that doesn't mean the owner was negligent.
                    If the plumbing was installed when the building was built, who's to blame thirty years later?
                    If the owner had some plumbing done, provided they took some care to pick a professional plumber, they're not going to know that a pipe has no inserts.
                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Bottom line, if you are in an upstairs flat and want to cause some problems, quietly disconnect a pipe and go away for a few days. You'll get a free refurbishment of your own flat (you will pay a small proportion), your downstairs neighbour will face 20K of damages and everyone in the building will have a large insurance premium for the next 5 years (or will be uninsurable).

                      Think it doesn't happen? Happened in a building where I have a flat. Twice. Everyone in the building knew what had happened. The perpetrator (who was one of the directors didn't let anyone know what insurance claim had been placed and by the time we discovered 5 years later the insurers showed no interest.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                        There's no way of knowing that the plumbing is defective, and there's no reason to assume it is.
                        Sometimes things just go wrong, pipes leak, joints move.

                        And, even if the plumbing is defective, that doesn't mean the owner was negligent.
                        If the plumbing was installed when the building was built, who's to blame thirty years later?
                        If the owner had some plumbing done, provided they took some care to pick a professional plumber, they're not going to know that a pipe has no inserts.
                        Are you a plumber.If pipes are not soldered properly than they will fail-copper is less vulnerable than lead.You can saw a cross section of copper to determine tightness.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by gnvqsos View Post

                          Are you a plumber.If pipes are not soldered properly than they will fail-copper is less vulnerable than lead.You can saw a cross section of copper to determine tightness.
                          You seem to respond to all issues the same was - "Are you a member of staff at HMRC etc". Think of different approach.

                          Nobody disagrees with you that lousy plumbing creates a risk. But unfortunately people who get lousy work done or maintain less get away with it because the system says they were not negligent -- so the victim is the one who suffers. I think it's totally wrong. But is the way it is.

                          Whether JP is a plumber is completely irrelevant. I happen to disagree with him (I think) that this is a massive problem and a totally bad thing. But he is correct about what is.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post

                            You seem to respond to all issues the same was - "Are you a member of staff at HMRC etc". Think of different approach.

                            Nobody disagrees with you that lousy plumbing creates a risk. But unfortunately people who get lousy work done or maintain less get away with it because the system says they were not negligent -- so the victim is the one who suffers. I think it's totally wrong. But is the way it is.

                            Whether JP is a plumber is completely irrelevant. I happen to disagree with him (I think) that this is a massive problem and a totally bad thing. But he is correct about what is.
                            Sorry but a person should not make assertions about things they do not understand-is your doctor qualified or a personnwho likes to speculate about yiur health using guess work?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by gnvqsos View Post

                              Sorry but a person should not make assertions about things they do not understand-is your doctor qualified or a personnwho likes to speculate about yiur health using guess work?
                              This is really silly. Nobody speculated about anything they do not understand.

                              Comment

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