HMO Room Rents - how do you break down rental costs or dont you bother ?

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  • #76
    Indeed, I'm guessing that the impact will very much depend on the ratio between fees charged vs. ranking of university.
    I'm not worrying for landlords in Oxford.

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    • #77
      Well my two 6 bed units being de-leased by the University being handled by (full disclosure !) Phlash seem to be attracting plenty of interest for next year.

      This in a City with around 1000 new University-Corporate bedrooms coming on the market next year from one of 2 Universities, and that same University having released at least 400 bedrooms (including ours) onto the private market for next year by ending leases.

      The slightly painful bit is that the Uni have suggested that each student in a house being viewed currently receive £10 per month in Tesco Vouchers. In the scheme of things, that is a small price though.

      ML
      Refer Mad Regulators to Arkell vs Pressdram.

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      • #78
        I am out of student letting, I get much greater returns elsewhere.

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        • #79
          The analysis about student numbers is a valid one with some key observations but the statistics need a little more consideration.

          The fall in numbers for 2012/13 is an academic one, at least at the top university cities. The level of deferrals from 2011/12 was much lower as students looked to cash in on lower fees rather than defer onto higher ones. 2011/12 was therefore artificially inflated in numbers and 2012/13 was artificially deflated. A deflated number divided by an inflated number gives you an anomalous statistic when slotted into a steady state trend as has been done in the arguments above.

          Having a drop from an inflated number to a deflated number does not mean that the core student numbers are dropping. We need more data for a conclusion like that.

          So, does application numbers give us the answer or more data that we need? I believe not. You must understand the relationship between application numbers and course starters. Application numbers may drop, but the course numbers could rise for instance, for the ratio between applicants and course places is greater than 1:1.

          I did a presentation on this to Nottingham landlords for which I am recording a VoiceOver to be able to pop onto a blog article. The key observation, in my view, is a shift in a focus to quality accommodation. Indeed, there will be 6,000 spare student rooms in Nottingham in summer 2013 - Is this cause alone to get out? No. It is cause to think about your product. There is a 12% oversupply in Nottingham - that's brilliant to know, simply because we are able to know and able to act accordingly and plan ahead. In very few markets do you have a clear indication of demand, but here we know that the competition we must beat is the bottom 12%.

          Then you take into account the key student considerations, proximity to university, cost and quality of accommodation. The third string in the bow didn't used to be so important, but as time has moved on this factor has become ever more important.

          A landlord should therefore recognise this trend, and act on it.

          I know this works, anecdotally and statistically. Our brand only offers accommodation that fits within the Comfort brand. The brand aims to recognise this observed flight to quality by only offering quality. It works, we get calls from groups that say "I don't care which Comfort house we live in, we just want to live in one of yours". For a letting agency to get those kind of calls is no mean feat, as most agents have a blend of quality, but it seems that our plan to only accept the best accommodation is paying dividends for our landlords as students flock to quality.

          Therefore, is it right to conclude that an investor should 'get out' based on a single factor or observation, or should an investor survey the horizon and react to what is in front of them? I prefer a planned march rather than an instinctive jump when planning my journeys.

          Lastly, let us imagine a scenario where student numbers do fall. It means that young worker numbers or LHA numbers increase as the students-that-never-were move out of home. So, whether your house is a student house, a young professionals house or an LHA house will be driven by which path people take. The fact remains, the population is growing still and more accommodation is required as this population vacate their family homes.
          I can take no responsibility for the use of any free comments given, any actions taken are the sole decision of the individual in question after consideration of my free comments.

          That also means I cannot share in any profits from any decisions made!

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          • #80
            Very well put. I say in earlier post's that some people will do well and succeed. I look not only at the dropping numbers but also at the increased investment in this sector, it is plainly obvious it is going to get tougher.

            I say I got out but I was very lightly invested in this sector and it was really easy for me to get out. Everyone is different and will have different things to consider. If your heavily invested then it is perhaps time to diversify, I only mean to draw people's attention to something I see as a toughening market which may have some difficult times ahead.

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            • #81
              I agree entirely, it is tougher. However, for me that presents an opportunity. Plenty of landlords may not fill their property and may have long voids. We know how to avoid those voids, which is a clear opportunity even in an Article 4 area.

              I too recognise the large corporate investment, and here is a rather poor video of me in my kitchen discussing it last Easter.

              http://www.comfortlettings.co.uk/blog/2012/06/05/protect-your-student-housing-investment
              I can take no responsibility for the use of any free comments given, any actions taken are the sole decision of the individual in question after consideration of my free comments.

              That also means I cannot share in any profits from any decisions made!

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Phlash View Post
                here is a rather poor video of me in my kitchen discussing it last Easter.
                You could have at least done the washing up.

                Comment


                • #83
                  The mug was used in the video filmed just before the filming of this one...!

                  I did two back to back, unscripted, and it tells. But then, the idea was to look less estate agent, and more landlord. i.e. A landlord article by a landlord with some letting agent's spectacles instead of estate agent bravado and aviator shades! Lol.

                  Anyway, it has had its uses and I don't mind the ribbing!
                  I can take no responsibility for the use of any free comments given, any actions taken are the sole decision of the individual in question after consideration of my free comments.

                  That also means I cannot share in any profits from any decisions made!

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Phlash View Post
                    I don't mind the ribbing!
                    What about the mug in the sink?

                    I hope Ram doesn't watch your video.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      You called my bluff...

                      Ermmm... It makes it feel less staged and more like a real home!
                      I can take no responsibility for the use of any free comments given, any actions taken are the sole decision of the individual in question after consideration of my free comments.

                      That also means I cannot share in any profits from any decisions made!

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Out of interest do you get much interest from investors wanting properties sourced/refurbished etc... I was thinking of doing a similar kind of thing myself but was unsure of what demand would be like?

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Mrs Mug View Post
                          What about the mug in the sink?

                          I hope Ram doesn't watch your video.
                          Should I watch it?

                          Has he still got that tie on?
                          'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                            Has he still got that tie on?
                            No. That was the reason why I watched it. Mrs Phlash has listened to our wise words and hasn't allowed him to wear it this time.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              UCAS have reported that applications are 3% up on last year. So, for me, that comes in as expected and not dropping from a cliff.
                              I can take no responsibility for the use of any free comments given, any actions taken are the sole decision of the individual in question after consideration of my free comments.

                              That also means I cannot share in any profits from any decisions made!

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                At the risk of making Phlash swap his Spiv tie for a set of golf-clubs and an Honest John hat (whatever they are called - top right), it appears that both of our Student Houses have rented in about a week under his guidance.

                                We have supplied Tesco Vouchers as compensation for disturbance, and Tesco insisted on doing 12 vouchers with 12 transactions and 12 different receipts. Bah.

                                At least we dodged the smoochy pink kissy-kissy Valentine version.

                                Why are there *two* kettles in the vid? Is this on the two dishwashers and no cupboards principle, but for tea?

                                ML
                                Refer Mad Regulators to Arkell vs Pressdram.

                                Comment

                                Latest Activity

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                                • Question about loft rooms?
                                  Logical.Lean
                                  So I have seen a 3 bed house I think would be ideal for my purposes, which is, that I would use it for 2 years whilst I work in the area before renting it out either as a single dwelling or as a small HMO. (With the lounge as a 4th Bedroom)
                                  However the 3rd Bedroom is in the loft. Agent says...
                                  23-07-2017, 16:50 PM
                                • Reply to Question about loft rooms?
                                  Logical.Lean
                                  Having now viewed it, I think the window would need to be lower (or a small staircase built under it ) and larger....
                                  26-07-2017, 20:12 PM
                                • HMO fire-safety questions - open plan living area
                                  aciduzzo
                                  I have a three-bed two-storey flat which i intend to let to three unrelated students on a single AST. I understand this will be considered an HMO. I also understand i will need a fire assessment; can this be done by the fire brigade?

                                  I realise i am almost certainly going to have to install...
                                  22-07-2017, 10:26 AM
                                • Reply to HMO fire-safety questions - open plan living area
                                  aciduzzo
                                  I spoke to a couple of FRA assessors today and, as we thought, they said the open-plan layout is an issue. As you say, Lacors is a set of guidelines not standards, and the risk assessors indicated they would almost-certainly recommend improvements to the internal escape route regardless of Lacors guidelines...
                                  25-07-2017, 18:12 PM
                                • Reply to HMO fire-safety questions - open plan living area
                                  jpkeates
                                  The assessment would be done in line with the LACORS guidelines, that's what they're for.
                                  But Lacors is a guideline, not a set of standards.

                                  Get the assessment done, it's not that expensive and it might save you a lot of hassle if what you're trying to do is a complete non-starte...
                                  25-07-2017, 14:58 PM
                                • Reply to HMO fire-safety questions - open plan living area
                                  aciduzzo
                                  Thanks jpkeates. in my case, it's clear that the open-plan layout is an issue, and i would expect a professional risk assessment to flag that. However, do these assessments take into consideration the LACORS guidelines? In my case, section 9.8 and 14 regarding windows as an alternative escape route...
                                  25-07-2017, 13:32 PM
                                • Reply to Question about loft rooms?
                                  jpkeates
                                  It may make the fire exit route an issue.
                                  25-07-2017, 10:58 AM
                                • Reply to HMO fire-safety questions - open plan living area
                                  jpkeates
                                  Your property doesn't seem to fall under the scope of the Fire Safety Order as it is a shared house - which means that the measures adopted may not be as stringent as those mandated by the order.

                                  The Management of Houses in Multiple Occupation (England) Regulations 2006 section 4 says that...
                                  25-07-2017, 10:57 AM
                                • Reply to HMO fire-safety questions - open plan living area
                                  aciduzzo
                                  I've now read everything i can find to read on the subject, and an FRA is only required if the FSO applies. See LACORS guidance for evidence of this. Furthermore, the NLA fire-safety logbook states:
                                  "A fire risk assessment is required for premises where the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety)...
                                  24-07-2017, 13:43 PM
                                • Reply to HMO fire-safety questions - open plan living area
                                  jpkeates
                                  Any HMO requires all the HMO regulations to be followed (including a Fire Risk Assessment).
                                  Licensing only adds some additional local requirements.

                                  You may find that specific planning permission is needed for the premises to be used as an HMO....
                                  24-07-2017, 08:55 AM
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