Tenant Couple with 2 Lodgers - Is this a HMO?

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  • Section20z
    replied
    Originally posted by Deiseman View Post

    Dear lord!

    All for 4 people living a 3 bed semi detached?????? It's a bit much!
    Indeed, I have four lovely girls been sharing a house for years who now have to have a sign on the wall to tell them where the door is !!

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  • Deiseman
    replied
    Originally posted by Section20z View Post

    And with a licence you may be looking at:-
    fire escape plan & signage, emergency lighting, thumb turn exit locks, anti-social behaviour policy & lease clauses, obligatory provision of references to LA, inspection log, fault log, and you must accommodate at least one lesbian..
    And that's just a few that spring to mind that Hackney request....(I may have imagined that last one).,
    Dear lord!

    All for 4 people living a 3 bed semi detached?????? It's a bit much!

    Leave a comment:


  • Section20z
    replied
    Originally posted by Deiseman View Post
    That does sound quite serious but on the council's website, this then just mentions the requirement of a fire blanket in the kitchen and working smoke alarms.

    The house meets all the other conditions.
    And with a licence you may be looking at:-
    fire escape plan & signage, emergency lighting, thumb turn exit locks, anti-social behaviour policy & lease clauses, obligatory provision of references to LA, inspection log, fault log, and you must accommodate at least one lesbian..
    And that's just a few that spring to mind that Hackney request....(I may have imagined that last one).,

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    That's a paraphrased version of "The Management of Houses in Multiple Occupation (England) Regulations 2006" which are the main source of the regulations governing HMOs.

    Could you point me at the local authority page(s) you refer to, someone should probably point out that they're not really helping!

    Leave a comment:


  • Deiseman
    replied
    That does sound quite serious but on the council's website, this then just mentions the requirement of a fire blanket in the kitchen and working smoke alarms.

    The house meets all the other conditions.

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    The regulations for an HMO are quite comprehensive even without a licence.
    Including (but not limited to):
    • To provide all occupiers with the manager's name, address and telephone number, this information must be clearly displayed within the property
    • To ensure that all fire escapes are clear of any obstacles and that they are kept in good order, to ensure that all fire safety measures are maintained in good working order and that adequate fire safety measures are in place with regards to the design, structural conditions and number of occupiers in the HMO
    • The manager must maintain adequate water supply and drainage to the dwelling
    • The manager must not unreasonably cause the electric and gas supply to be interrupted
    • The manager must ensure that every fixed electrical installation is inspected and tested by a suitably qualified person, at intervals not exceeding five years
    • The manager must provide the electrical and gas inspection certificates within seven days of receiving a request in writing from the local housing authority
    • To ensure that all common parts of the HMO are maintained in good decorative order, and safe and working condition. This includes outbuildings, boundaries and gardens
    • The manager must ensure each unit of living accommodation and its contents are clean before occupiers move in and are maintained in good repair and clean working order throughout the occupation by the tenant
    • The manager must provide adequate facilities to dispose of all waste produced by the property.
    Some of these are significantly more onerous than they appear - the "fire safety measures" one probably involves hiring a specialist and doing what they suggest. Keeping the fire escape routes clear means that each room has an acceptable fire escape route, for example.

    There can also be planning implications for an HMO as it is a distinct "type" of property.

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  • Deiseman
    replied
    I've also looked into the council's HMO rules and regulations. The only thing relating to fire escapes/other regulations is that the escape route must be kept clear. There does not appear to be anything substantial in terms of requirements within my local authority other than maintaining a safe household.

    It does obviously talk about safety certificates for the gas and electrical installations. The boiler received one a few months ago so will into the electrical safety cert. All of this is accepted by the owner as his responsibility.

    Leave a comment:


  • Deiseman
    replied
    I am just trying to deal with one thing at a time, so for the moment it's the licensing issue. I won't be telling the council about the current situation. I will just be asking them to confirm a few things in a hypothetical situation.

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    The website will tell you whether you need a licence or not.
    The default position is that you don't, but if the local authority has an additional licence regime in place, you might.

    The issue isn't anything to do with needing a licence, about which you seem somewhat (oddly) obsessed.
    It is about whether or not your property is fit to be an HMO - which it clearly isn't.

    I would be very wary of telling the local authority anything.

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  • Deiseman
    replied
    Don't worry, I haven't forgotten but first things first

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  • doobrey
    replied
    Originally posted by Deiseman View Post
    First things first is to call the council tomorrow and see if they can confirm whether the situation even needs a license.
    It is about more than just a licence. See post #21.

    Leave a comment:


  • Deiseman
    replied
    Also, just to highlight that the benefit that we get from it is just being able to stay in a house that we like and pick our housemates. We don't end up with free rental as a result and pay more for our room than the other tenants would for each of their rooms.

    Leave a comment:


  • Deiseman
    replied
    First things first is to call the council tomorrow and see if they can confirm whether the situation even needs a license. After that we can address the other issues. I did have a look at the license register and there is not one single property licensed with less than 5 people with over 1000 licensed properties.

    This could mean that people are not bothering with less or it could mean that it's just not needed.

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    No.
    Because you are also aware of the issue, benefitting from it and not addressing it.

    I'd say it was split between the "two" of you,

    I'm not in any sense able to predict what might happen, though.
    No one may ever care.

    Leave a comment:


  • Deiseman
    replied
    So your opinion would be that the license is the owner/landlords responsibility because of this. I would also argue that because he is aware of the subletting and makes a financial gain from it, that this makes him entirely responsible. Would you agree?

    Leave a comment:

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