Live in landlord hmo licence fire safety?

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    Live in landlord hmo licence fire safety?


    Live in landlord hmo licence fire safety?

    So 1st of October.....

    Do I need a hmo licence?

    if I want to have 3 loggers in 3 rooms and me and my girlfriend in 1 room, do I need a hmo licence now? (4 rooms with 5 people in total)

    and if so what do I need to do about fire safety as I am a live-in landlord would it change now I need a licence?

    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ds-and-tenants

    """""""""""""""""
    The Smoke and Carbon Monoxide Alarm (England) Regulations 2015: Q&A booklet for the private rented sector – landlords and tenants
    19. Live-in landlords and owner occupiers

    If the occupier shares the accommodation with the landlord or landlord’s family then these regulations will not apply.

    For the purposes of the regulations, a landlord is considered to share accommodation with the tenant if they share an amenity such as a kitchen or living room. The regulations are not aimed at owner-occupied properties."""""""""""""

    if anyone has any useful info that would be great, thanks.

    #2
    You are an HMO, so presumably a licensable one. The council's licensing conditions will dictate the rest, but I would expect you would require fire safety upgrades.

    Seriously, if you do not have any smoke alarms, you have a fire trap, even if you and the girlfriend were the only occupants.

    Comment


      #3
      Yes, I think this meets the conditions for mandatory licensing. As above the Council website is the place to start

      Comment


        #4
        Yes I have alarms but will i need mains alarms now? and more fire doors etc., because i'm resident will this apply?

        Comment


          #5
          As you will be resident then I would have thought that you would want fire doors and effective alarms for your own safety/protection.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Another Landlord View Post
            Yes I have alarms but will i need mains alarms now? and more fire doors etc., because i'm resident will this apply?
            Yes, the HMO regulations apply to HMO's with resident landlords.
            This isn't a new thing, that's been the case for years.

            If you aren't following the regulations already, you're breaking the law.

            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Another Landlord View Post
              The Smoke and Carbon Monoxide Alarm (England) Regulations 2015: Q&A booklet for the private rented sector – landlords and tenants
              19. Live-in landlords and owner occupiers

              If the occupier shares the accommodation with the landlord or landlord’s family then these regulations will not apply.

              For the purposes of the regulations, a landlord is considered to share accommodation with the tenant if they share an amenity such as a kitchen or living room. The regulations are not aimed at owner-occupied properties..
              Those regulations don't apply to HMOs at all, so the exemption for live in landlord's is meaningless in this case.

              The regulations don't apply to HMOs because the HMO regulations already cover the same issues - the fire alarm requirements in an HMO are much stricter than these regulations.
              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Another Landlord View Post
                Yes I have alarms but will i need mains alarms now? and more fire doors etc., because i'm resident will this apply?
                Dear Another Landlord,

                Current definition of HMO under the Housing Act 2004:
                https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga...34/section/254

                My family are investigating the new rules too as a 'resident landlord' and I draw your attention to the definitions of a 'single household'.
                My understanding is your girlfriend is part of your family household if she does not pay rent, as co-habitee. Therefore, she is not incorporated into the numbers to qualify as an HMO. So, you are included, as a resident landlord 'household' & your 3 paying lodgers are included, as separate 'households' sharing facilities. This totals four - under the five people & over rule. My understanding is the legislation is to protect the safety of paying persons. Investigate the other relevant sections of the legislation.

                I recommend you pay for a fire risk assessment c. £300 as a matter of urgency and complete rectifications. It may be that battery-powered smoke alarms with relevant checks are sufficient, with protected, clear passage to safely exit the building and fire doors. A small price to pay for safety in a worst case scenario. Make sure your building insurance covers numbers of people and check limits on numbers of people residing in any residential mortgage terms & conditions.

                Comment


                  #9
                  From the point of view of the paying residents, there are five people. If this really is a loophole, the law needs changing as there is no difference in the risk that I can see. In any case, it is an HMO, even if the loophole is effective, and still needs proper fire risk assessments.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by J Brown View Post
                    This totals four - under the five people & over rule. My understanding is the legislation is to protect the safety of paying persons. Investigate the other relevant sections of the legislation.
                    The HMO legislation is the same for any HMO, the five people and over rule relates to the requirement for licensing (which might include additional "local" requirements).
                    Some local authorities have extended the requirement for licensing, so you always need to check the local regulations.

                    The basic regulations Include (but anen'r limited to):

                    To provide all occupiers with the manager's name, address and telephone number, this information must be clearly displayed within in the property

                    To ensure that all fire escapes are clear of any obstacles and that they are kept in good order, to ensure that all fire safety measures are maintained in good working order and that adequate fire safety measures are in place with regards to the design, structural conditions and number of occupiers in the HMO

                    The manager must maintain adequate water supply and drainage to the dwelling

                    The manager must not unreasonably cause the electric and gas supply to be interrupted

                    The manager must ensure that every fixed electrical installation is inspected and tested by a suitably qualified person, at intervals not exceeding five years

                    The manager must provide the electrical and gas inspection certificates within seven days of receiving a request of writing from the local housing authority

                    To ensure that all common parts of the HMO are maintained in good decorative order, and safe and working condition. This includes out-buildings, boundaries and gardens

                    The manager must ensure each unit of living accommodation and its contents are clean before occupiers move in and are maintained in good repair and clean working order throughout the occupation by the tenant

                    The manager must provide adequate facilities to dispose of all waste produced by the property

                    Some of these are more onerous than they appear - the "fire safety measures" one probably involves paying for a specialist review and doing what they suggest (which will probably involve a higher than "normal" standard of doors, heat sensitive fire alarms in kitchen(s) and proper fire escapes).

                    There may be planning implications for an HMO as it is a distinct "type" of property.

                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment

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