Tenants subletting?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Tenants subletting?

    I let my property to a couple who now say his uncle and her sister are coming to live with them. I believe that they are the uncle and sister ie the tenants are telling the truth about the relationships so it won't be a HMO.

    Do I have any responsibility for checking the relationship and if so how do I do this?

    Also do I have any responsibility for checking right to rent as uncle and sister are living in my property? I don't know if they are actually paying any rent to the tenants.

    What would happen if the uncle and sister were not actually related to the tenants?

    #2
    Originally posted by Berlingogirl View Post
    IDo I have any responsibility for checking the relationship and if so how do I do this?
    It's one of those better to be safe things.
    If they turn out not to be who they say they are it's an HMO and you could get into trouble (the tenants probably won't be in trouble).
    If they are who they say they are, all is well.
    So (assuming I'd allow it at all - see below), asking for proof would seem prudent.

    Also do I have any responsibility for checking right to rent as uncle and sister are living in my property? I don't know if they are actually paying any rent to the tenants.
    Right to rent violations are targetted at the person who gives the permission to reside.
    So if you are giving permission (and it sounds like you're being asked to), best to check.

    I'd query any outcome that ends up with four adults living in somewhere you let to two people.
    It's possible that it affects insurance and BTL lending - often the terms require occupants to be on the AST.
    If they are living there I'd want them on the AST and to increase the rent (more people is more wear and tear).

    And, while bending every fibre of my being in order to be on the right side of correctness, in a lot of cultures, "uncle" is a much more flexible relationship that the brother of one of my parents.
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    Comment


      #3
      I'd refer them to the bit in tenancy saying no other occupants without LL permission, and ask for copies of passports or driving licences and exact relationship (ie the link by whom..).

      Some cultures (eg the wife, essex, '50s..) have almost all local males as "uncle" and females as "auntie" although no blood relationship.
      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

      Comment


        #4
        Thank you for your responses. If uncle and sister are not paying rent is it still subletting?

        Comment


          #5
          It's not subletting, but all of the other issues apply.
          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


            #6
            May I suggest you undertake a check on both Uncle and Sister by using a sourcing site like 192.com (other organisations are available and I do not endorse the firm mentioned) where for a nominal cost you can get confirmation of their respective residencies for the last 6 years including being on the Electoral Roll and importantly you can also find out if they have any CCJ's or Defaults, so before you consider your tenants request , obtain said information for last 6 years stating dates of residency , certainly ask for corroborative evidence by way of Bank Statements , Credit card bills etc. It is no point anyone saying that they are non political so are not on the Electoral Roll , it is an obligation to register even if one didn't vote !!

            As already mentioned I would check with your lender to establish if by allowing others to reside you are not breaching the terms under which the mortgage was granted indeed as already suggested it might be necessary to create a new AST with all four persons listed , remember your present tenants could do a runner and then where will you be!!

            Comment


              #7
              Thank you everyone. I'll have to have a big think about this. Maybe see how long the uncle is staying. The sister hasn't arrived yet.

              Comment


                #8
                Whether the Uncle or Sister has arrived or not I would revert to the suggestions I made regarding traceability, personally I would have serious concerns about their intentions.

                Comment


                  #9
                  What would be the implications of the situation if Uncle and Sister came to stay and I didn't know anthing about it?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    If theyve only asked you verbally then you have deniability, otherwse potentially liability. Dont forget that the 2016 Immigration Act introduced the concept of "reasonable cause to believe...", which can even apply to tenancies that pre-date the original 2014 legislation.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Berlingogirl View Post
                      What would be the implications of the situation if Uncle and Sister came to stay and I didn't know anthing about it?
                      It's more likely that the local authority, should they find out and have an issue, would give you a period (maybe as long as 18 months) to correct the issue, instead of going all finey and dramatic.

                      From a right to rent perspective you'd have an issue eventually, because at some point you'd be assumed to find out that there are more people living there based on your normal activities as a landlord. But again, that's only an issue if it turns out the occupants aren't living there legally.
                      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Thanks everyone. I'll have to wait and see if the relatives turn up.

                        Comment

                        Latest Activity

                        Collapse

                        • PAT testing cert
                          rugbyroom
                          Dear Forum,

                          I have a registered HMO and new council official wanting to see numerous cert etc which I have, however I have my own PAT tester (callibrated) and get someone to do the tests for me who simply attended a 1 day course through their work.

                          They cant give certificates...
                          18-10-2018, 12:03 PM
                        • Reply to PAT testing cert
                          rugbyroom
                          The test consist of plugging each appliances into a hand held tester to confirm wires etc are fitted correctly. A visual inspection and then a sticker stuck on the plug to confirm its safe. Council wants certificates to confirm this has been done, but I'm reading that a competent person can do this...
                          19-10-2018, 10:20 AM
                        • Reply to PAT testing cert
                          DPT57
                          I think that doing nothing may be better than letting an unregistered electrician "tinker" with the appliances but I guess it may depends on whether PAT testing is a licence requirement
                          18-10-2018, 19:39 PM
                        • Fire door, door stop requirement
                          fredfox
                          Hi, I'm struggling to find the legal requirement for door stops in a licensed HMO for 5 people, single tenancy agreement. We are installing FD30 doors on the bedrooms with closers and fire & smoke intumescent strips. I've approached the local council for guidance, but they are yet to come back...
                          17-10-2018, 08:34 AM
                        • Reply to Fire door, door stop requirement
                          fredfox
                          Thanks red40 for taking the time to respond, it was a very interesting and informative read. I share your frustration. I'll do as you have requested and look for the standards document upon which the door was certified. I did find several references to installing as per the manufacturer’s specification....
                          18-10-2018, 09:47 AM
                        • Reply to Fire door, door stop requirement
                          jpkeates
                          In theory, you can do it yourself.

                          In practice, use a local consultant - it’s a bread and butter job, they’ll know the local council and once it’s done, you’ll know exactly what you have to do, and will have the consultant as back up if the council are difficult....
                          17-10-2018, 15:25 PM
                        • Reply to Fire door, door stop requirement
                          red40
                          Yet more appalling advice from a local authority, what they are effectively doing is specifying remedial work to an important component of the protected means of escape without any knowledge of the burn time, no evidence of suitable and adequate testing to meet the 30 minute requirement and more importantly...
                          17-10-2018, 11:54 AM
                        • Reply to Fire door, door stop requirement
                          leaseholder64
                          The government de-nationalised this service over a decade ago. The fire service no longer provide this service, only enforcement.
                          17-10-2018, 11:13 AM
                        • Reply to Fire door, door stop requirement
                          fredfox
                          OK thanks. Inspection it is then, do you use the fire service or a consultant?...
                          17-10-2018, 10:37 AM
                        • Reply to Fire door, door stop requirement
                          jpkeates
                          You have to complete a fire risk assessment.

                          That assessment will give you the guidance you need. The council’s approach will be different, they’ll simply tell you you’re not compliant with their standards and threaten to fine you until you are.
                          17-10-2018, 10:14 AM
                        Working...
                        X