HMO avoidance

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    HMO avoidance

    According to the HMO rules & the new rules that come out in oct 2018, there seem to be some obvious ways to have 5 or more tenants but avoid being an HMO:

    pre oct 2018
    1. Five or more tenants, on only 1 or 2 levels

    post oct 2018 (under new rules, 2 levels now count toward large HMO)
    1. Five or more tenants on only 1 level
    2. Five or more hotel-style ensuite bedrooms with their own mini fridge & microwave (or similar), no shared facilities. This could on 1, 2, 3 or more levels. Many tenants in city areas don't cook & would be happy to rent without a formal kitchen. Likewise, many tenants who cook occasionally would be happy to use a portable hob or microwave in return for cheaper rent, as long as there are suitable fire safety devices.
    3. Four tenants in the house, 1 tenant in a garden room with ensuite bathroom & portable cooking facilities, with suitable fire safety requirements met.
    ​​​​​​​4. Rent out 5 bedrooms on air b n b. This could be on 1, 2, 3 or more levels. Even though there are 5 or more unrelated people, the fact that they're temporary would appear to exclude HMO licensing.

    #2
    Or, simpler, safer, register & license HMO and avoid possible fines, criminal charges, finding mortgage & insurance terms breached (so, e.g. place burns down, occupants 'orribly burned, no payout, you bankrupt..) & rent-repayment-orders (this latter meaning you have to repay all the rent...). This latter see
    http://www.ehn-online.com/news/article.aspx?id=16866
    The council has to date applied for 61 rent repayment orders resulting in £380,000 in reclaimed benefits.
    And no, AirB&B can turn out to be an AST - see
    https://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/20...upation-types/
    - so if that is the case problems with penalties for non-protected deposits & s21's being invalid due to matters not being sorted & served on tenant/occupant (GSC, EPC, deposit)

    I'm very not keen on tenants, agents, landlords or MPs etc etc etc... who try to fiddle their way round laws & regulations: Not that you are necessarily planning to do so, clearly.
    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

    Comment


      #3
      My post was more of a question- "is this true?", although it may not have seemed obvious.

      Some people legitimately don't want the hassle of owning a large HMO that requires a license. Helping people to understand HMO rules does not necessarily constitute "agents who try to fiddle their way round laws".

      Your suggestion to register & license an HMO would fail, since they don't fall under the licensable HMO conditions. The council would turn down your application.

      Your link is broken. It leads to this: Sorry, that page does not exist

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by cupcake78292 View Post
        .................
        Your link is broken. It leads to this: Sorry, that page does not exist
        So sorry: Both still seem to work for me, albeit the EHN one takes some time. If any link is still broken for you, could you kindly indicate which of the two, and which browser/ operating system you are using, please?

        Cheers!
        I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

        Comment


          #5
          I think youre misinformed cupcake.
          1) I believe Oct 2018 regulations just remove the 3 storey restriction so even a Bungalow with 5 tenants becomes a licensable HMO
          2) This is likely to be 5 self contained bedsits each with their own Council Tax liability and the building itself may still be an HMO
          3) If there are only 4 tenants in the property because one has been housed elsewhere then clearly it would not be caught by mandatory licensing
          4) AirBnB wouldnt normally be their main home of course, unless the residents decide to make it their main home and a court decides that they actually have ASTs, in which case you now have an unlicenced HMO where you cant use a s21 to get them out and because youre unlicenced the tenants decide to claim all their rent back through a Rent Repayment Order.

          Comment

          Latest Activity

          Collapse

          • What are the fire checks: 4 bed HMO
            bengal
            Setting up a 4 bed HMO

            We've installed interconnected smoke detectors in all rooms, have smoke alarms on each level in hall ways, co2 alarms in relevant rooms and heat detector in correct room - can't recall if kitchen or hall as writing this on behalf of partner who did it as recommended...
            12-07-2018, 11:39 AM
          • Reply to What are the fire checks: 4 bed HMO
            leaseholder64
            If you are leaving the country you must have appointed a manager for the HMO, and put up notices giving details of how to contact them.. They are the ones responsible for ensuring that testing is being done.
            18-08-2018, 10:35 AM
          • Reply to What are the fire checks: 4 bed HMO
            jpkeates
            Part of the mandatory requirements for the manager of an HMO is to have carried out a Fire Risk Assessment (or to have one carried out).
            That will define both the safety standards for equipment (like alarms and doors), confirm that fire exit routes are acceptable and should also confirm the nature...
            18-08-2018, 08:36 AM
          • Single AST agreement or not??
            Gillmstar
            hi, would really appreciate some info from an experienced HMO landlord on this one.. I’m acquiring my first multi let property, do you think a single AST agreement will be fine for 4 tenants who may not know each other? Or is this something to stay away from and have a unique agreement for each room?...
            20-02-2018, 16:11 PM
          • Reply to Single AST agreement or not??
            jpkeates
            That's going to be difficult to manage.
            Are they named as the tenant or as tenants (plural)?
            What have you told the local authority about council tax?...
            18-08-2018, 08:32 AM
          • HMO avoidance
            cupcake78292
            According to the HMO rules & the new rules that come out in oct 2018, there seem to be some obvious ways to have 5 or more tenants but avoid being an HMO:

            pre oct 2018
            1. Five or more tenants, on only 1 or 2 levels

            post oct 2018 (under new rules, 2 levels now count...
            10-08-2018, 13:46 PM
          • Reply to HMO avoidance
            DPT57
            I think youre misinformed cupcake.
            1) I believe Oct 2018 regulations just remove the 3 storey restriction so even a Bungalow with 5 tenants becomes a licensable HMO
            2) This is likely to be 5 self contained bedsits each with their own Council Tax liability and the building itself may still...
            17-08-2018, 21:02 PM
          • HMO question
            rentreviewspecialist
            Are there any landlords here whose HMOs are in leased property? In other words, the property itself is held on a lease from another landlord (superior landlord) and underlet as an HMO.

            What I'd like to find out is how the rent review between landlord A and superior landlord B is calculated?...
            08-08-2018, 16:16 PM
          • Reply to HMO question
            DPT57
            The ground rent payable on a leasehold property should be set out in the lease. Ive never heard of one where it was linked to the use of the property or the amount of rent received. What exactly does the clause in your lease say?
            17-08-2018, 20:38 PM
          • Reply to What are the fire checks: 4 bed HMO
            leaseholder64
            Weekly is the advice for owner occupiers and offices, so I don't see how you could argue for anything longer.

            Weekly testing is something that building manager can do for themselves, or could even be delegated to a tenant, although in that case definitely get a log book to prove it is being...
            15-08-2018, 11:12 AM
          Working...
          X