Inheritance and wills

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    #31
    If the property or some of it is part of the estate, I doubt it could be sold (or exchanged) prior to the grant of probate. It’s possible, but it would be far from normal.
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Raiden328i View Post
      OK last one from me before me and him have words. So I was bored at work and decided to look the area up as I thought no way that house is worth that much. Its on bloody rightmove???? He told me that he told estate agents to naff off i've sold it privately
      Have a chat with a solicitor first thing tomorrow morning. Not sure what else you need to persuade you you're being taken for a ride.

      Let us know how you get on.

      Comment


        #33
        Before I speak to him or a solicitor my wife has found something on the land registry doc which is confusing.

        On the title deed to the house which shows restriction. No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (expect a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorized by an order of the court.

        I understand this means it is a tenancy in common and that my grandmother would still be able to will her share on myself and sister which we think is in the original will. So what would my uncle have to apply to the court for to lift the restriction? Also the other restriction is saying: no disposition by the proprietors of the registered estate is to be registered unless ONE OR MORE OF THEM MAKES A STATUTORY DECLARATION OR STATEMENT OF TRUTH OR THEIR CONVEYANCER GIVES A CERTIFICATE THAT THE DISPOSITION IS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE TERMS OF A DEED OF TRUST DATED XXX AND MADE BETWEEN (1) XXX AND (2) XXX OR SOME VARIATION THERE OF REFERRED TO IN THE DECLARATION STATEMENT OR CERTIFICATE.

        please can anyone clarify what this exactly means?

        Comment


          #34
          That supports my theory that all or some of the property has been gifted to a trust.

          The part (or all of it) gifted are no longer in your grandmother’s estate and therefore not affected by what the will says about who shares what. Anything remaining in the estate is still subject to the provisions of the will. Most likely it’s all in the trust as it’s more complex otherwise and doesn’t normally achieve anything.

          And that also indicates that any sale hasn’t actually completed yet - although the records take a while to get updated.

          Any sale of the house will mean a conveyancer would need to check that the sale is within the scope of the trust. Although the word of the two trustees should be enough.
          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


            #35
            Probate for my mother took about 2,5 years. The delay was due to my father dying 10 months after she did. He needed an inquest which happened nearly 6 moths later,. Then we basically had to start over.

            Comment


              #36
              Well I spoke to a solicitor last night and they think from the info I have given them my uncle has made some big mistakes. They said the firm dealing with the probate are not doing their job and should be writing to me and my sister every now and again explaining why there are delays but they have only written to my sister once in 2.5 years and nothing to me. My uncle as the executor is not doing his duty they tell me by him being vague and not showing us the will etc and no accounts for any of my nans money isn't a good sign. If it went to court he would have to prove what he has done with the money and if not he'll get fines, be charged interest as well as having to pay us rent at half the market value useless we said otherwise. With the trust they said he needs to produce us paperwork to make sure everything legal and above board. Oh and the new alarm is that he has lied to me about this private sale. I looked on rightmove to see how much houses in the area are worth and at the top of the search is the house for 900k with an estate agent so I phoned them and they said its been on for a week and lots of offers have been made on it!!!! The law firm said they would write to him and the probate firm asking for answers and see what the response is but they did say me and my sister need to be on the same page if we go ahead. She is in Mexico and back on the 24th but she wants to talk to him face to face and just ask him what's going on. She's not 100% sure but she thinks the will changed about a year before my nan died and there was a lot of changes. I was never told any of this but like the solicitor said if your not inheriting anything then why is your uncle not just pulling out the will and saying here you go see for yourself. For a £1000 its worth seeing if we are due anything

              Comment


                #37
                It does sound like your uncle might find the legal letter a little uncomfortable.

                The main point is, I think, if the will has changed and you aren’t inheriting anything, why has the uncle not just shown you the will to prove that? You’re going to see it eventually when it becomes a matter of public record.

                Some of the other points are a bit speculative. If you aren’t the will there’s no reason for anyone to write to you and no reason the executors have to with you at all. On the other hand, if there’s a trust and you’re beneficiaries, the trustees are doing a pi55 poor job.
                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                Comment


                  #38
                  As I have a lot of free time at work I looked at the house again and it says STC. So I did probate search just now and probate completed on the 15th (funny after I called my uncle on the 13th) so I ordered it but can take up to 10 days for the download for that and the will. Only strange thing is it says registered in Winchester? The house and him live in London

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Could be an office of the probate firm or another solicitors.

                    If probate’s been granted everything must look legit as regards the will.
                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                      If probate’s been granted everything must look legit as regards the will.
                      You're probably right, but here's an example of an exception to that.

                      For example, after my mum died, the initial firm of solicitors obtained probate on the basis of intestacy for my mother's estate about two years ago. Thankfully, this probate was never enacted because of legal complications and the whole mess ended up at another, much more helpful, solicitors.

                      They suggested the involvement of a barrister specialised in complex domicile issues, and his report showed that the original will was actually valid all along. We're now in the process of applying for probate on the basis of a valid will while also looking into recouping our payment to the firm that originally told us it wasn't valid.

                      So it is possible for probate to be granted incorrectly if based on incorrect legal advice.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by tatemono View Post
                        So it is possible for probate to be granted incorrectly if based on incorrect legal advice.
                        Sounds like a right mess.

                        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                        Comment


                          #42
                          I'm thinking of writing a book about it one day when it's all over. As Churchill said, this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Before I go see a solicitor this is the will and also on the probate it says the house is not worth over 325k which it clearly is:

                            1. revoke all former testamentary dispositions.
                            2a. I appoint as my executor my son xxxx.
                            >
                            > b. In this will the expression my executors includes the trustees for the time being of this will and the trusts arising under it.
                            > 3. My executor shall hold the whole of my estate on trust either to:
                            > Retain or sell it (without being liable for loss) on the following trusts
                            > a. To pay debts, inheritance tax or other death duties (if any) and executorship expenses.
                            > b. To divide the residue as follows:
                            > i 50% of the residue of my estate to my said son xxxx.
                            > ii 50% to such of them my grandchildren as shall survive me and if both of them, then equal shares.
                            > iii provides always that if any of my said beneficiaries die before me leaving a child or children then that child or those children shall on reaching 21 years take the share which their parent would otherwise have taken and if more than one then in equal shares.
                            > 4. My executor shall have the following powers:
                            > To apply for the benefit of any beneficiary as my executor think fit the whole or any part of the income from that part of my estate to which he is entitled or may in future be entitled.
                            > To apply for the benefit of any beneficiary of as my executors think fit the whole or any part of the capital to which that beneficiary is entitled or may in the future be entitled and on becoming absolutely entitled he should bring into account any payments received under this clause.
                            > To invest and change investments freely as if they were beneficially entitled and this power includes the right to invest in unsecured interest free loans or other non income producing assists including property for occupational use by the beneficiary.
                            > Any immovable property shall be held by my executors on trust either to retain or sell it.
                            > To exercise the power of appropriation under section 41 of the administration of estates act 1925without obtaining any of the required consents and even if one or my of my executors may benefit personally as a result therefore.
                            > In exercising the statutory power of appointing new trustees to appoint a professional person or a trust corporation at such remuneration and on such other terms as shall be agreed.
                            > To insure any asset of my estate on such terms as they think fit and to pay premiums out of income or capital and to use any insurance monies received to either restore the asset in question as if this money were the proceeds of sale.
                            >

                            Comment


                              #44
                              I see no mention of the house at all. I do see mention of using the estate to pay inheritance tax, so it covers the case where it is more than £325k.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by leaseholder64 View Post
                                I see no mention of the house at all. I do see mention of using the estate to pay inheritance tax, so it covers the case where it is more than £325k.

                                I have a feeling that the probate certificate/declaration states the total estate is not worth more than £325k.

                                Comment

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