How to let a boat?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    How to let a boat?

    Hi, say the AST started 15/01/10 and ends 14/01/11 inclusive. I want to serve notice to quit with more than 2 months to go

    1. what date do I put - 15/01/11?
    2. my tenant has threatened that he will use Harassment against me if I visit any more (had several visits for maintenance). How can I deliver this notice without him employing that law against me?
    3. how do I get him to sign it, or dont I need to? (presumably I can take photographic evidence to show I was there, and if I email the photo to someone, it will have a date)

    thanks

    (I have used different dates to prevent my tenant recognising this)
    Last edited by landlordparadise; 10-09-2010, 09:21 AM. Reason: to change email preference

    #2
    Originally posted by landlordparadise View Post
    Hi, say the AST started 15/01/10 and ends 14/01/11 inclusive. I want to serve notice to quit with more than 2 months to go

    1. what date do I put - 15/01/11?
    2. my tenant has threatened that he will use Harassment against me if I visit any more (had several visits for maintenance). How can I deliver this notice without him employing that law against me?
    3. how do I get him to sign it, or dont I need to? (presumably I can take photographic evidence to show I was there, and if I email the photo to someone, it will have a date)

    thanks

    (I have used different dates to prevent my tenant recognising this)
    Using the dates provided, the expiry date would be "After 14th January 2011"

    If you post 2 copies by regular first class post, from different post offices, obtaining *free* certificates of posting, the court will accept that as served 2 working days later. Do not use recorded/registered as T can refuse them or not get them due to being out.

    Alternatively, you can have someone witness you serving the document through the property letterbox. T may threaten harassment, but they wouldn't get very far, you have a right to serve the s21.

    Comment


      #3
      Hi Thanks very much.

      There is further complication with the second part of your advice which I didn't explain: The property is a boat, that moves around.

      He has a c/o address, and may not pick up his post before the date 2 months before the end of the tenancy. therefore I think I need to deliver it.

      1. First of all I have to either ask him where he is currently or find him! He said in his last letter of warning, that he didn't want to be telling me where he is as he feels that is an invasion of his privacy.

      2. There is no letterbox, so I have 2 options: to tape it securely to the side of the boat, where he gets on and off. Or second: post it through a window (he has them open at the top at the moment as its warm). which would you recommend?

      3. Lastly, how do I find out if the form I have got is "correct". My tenant is known for taking things to court at the drop of a hat: he loves a legal battle and will keep appealing if possible (I found this out too late!). Should I post it here for someone to look at?

      thanks again

      Comment


        #4
        I must admit that I have no idea if a boat can have an AST, therefore it may be that an s21 isn't the right process. Lets wait for someone who knows what they are talking about, or maybe you could post a query titled something like "Does a boat have an AST?"

        Comment


          #5
          A I said before, I know nothing about boats, but the 1988 HA says that a property can not have an AST if "under which the dwelling-house had a rateable value on the 31st March 1990 which, if it is in Greater London, exceeded £1,500 and, if it is elsewhere, exceeded £750". As I presume a boat has a rateable value of £0, that is obviously below £750.

          Also, I do not think you can have a tenancy on a boat because this definition off the web (probably not official) makes it clear it has to be land based:
          The word "tenant" originated under the feudal system, referring to land "owners" who held their land on tenure granted by a lord.
          So, I think all you have is a contractual rental agreement. What does the agreement say about re-possession?

          Comment


            #6
            Hi,
            we have used a AST agreement, with a clause saying that the boat is counted as a "dwelling-house":

            This Agreement creates an assured shorthold tenancy within Part I Chapter II of the Housing Act 1988.

            In so far as the Property may be deemed to fall outside of the Act, this agreement shall have force as if the Property did fall within the Act. Specifically the parties agree that (1) the authority provided by Chelsea Yacht & Boat Co v Pope [2000] 1 WLR 1941 shall not apply and (2) the Property shall be specifically regarded as being a “Dwelling House” for the purposes of the Act.

            This means that when the Term expires the Landlord can recover possession as set out in section 21 of that Act unless the Landlord gives the Tenant a notice under paragraph 2 of Schedule 2A to that Act stating that the tenancy is no longer an assured shorthold tenancy.

            My tenant, who is very up in these things, did explain the case Chelsea Yacht & Boat Co v Pope [2000] 1 WLR 1941, however I have forgotten now whether it deemed a boat to be outside of the housing act.

            I will post a post as you suggest.

            In the meantime, I thought it a good idea to proceed as though we are working under the AST, and serve him notice. Unfortunately he has looked into the cases gone before and I dont have the mind for that sort of thing...

            I am terrified that he will fight me right up to European Court, and all of my money will get spent on solicitors and I will be bankrupt and lose everything. He is certainly capable of it, and will get legal aid....

            thanks for your help.

            Comment


              #7
              I don't know the case law, but I am pretty sure that it is neither possible to opt-in or opt-out of being an AST because the legislation itself dictates what is and what isn't.

              However, there are several members on here with legal qualifications, so I shall wait until they comment on this or your other post before diving in again

              Comment


                #8
                Having just posted that I won't say any more, I found this:
                Land is defined in the Law of Property Act 1925, s. 205(1)(ix) as including ‘the surface, buildings or parts of buildings’ and whatever is attached to the land becomes part of the land under another Latin maxim, quicquid plantatur solo, solo cedit. This raises, in practice, an important problem relating to ownership of those items which, but for the fact that they are attached to the land, would constitute chattels. The distinction needs to be drawn between those items which are fixtures, and therefore part of the realty, and those which are not, and therefore remain personalty
                There are two tests for determining whether an object is a fixture or a chattel. The first test relates to the degree of annexation. If the object is annexed to the land then it is, prima facie, a fixture. So, in Holland v Hodgson (1872) LR 7 CP 328, spinning looms bolted to the floor of a factory were attached other than by their own weight and were fixtures. In Hulme v Brigham [1943]KB 152, however, heavy printing presses which stood on the floor without any attachment other than the force of gravity, were chattels. In Chelsea Yacht & Boat Co v Pope [2000] 1 WLR 1941, a houseboat which was moored to the bank and which moved up and down with the tide, was held to be a chattel.
                So to summarise - if it is a fixture, you could presumably have a tenancy, bit the precedent set by the case says a boat would be a 'chattel', not a fixture. Again, I would wait for confirmation from someone who knows what they are talking about, but I don't think you can opt-out of precedents.

                Comment


                  #9
                  How to let a boat?

                  Hi,
                  I have a year's AST with my tenant on a boat. It is time to serve Section 21(b) as the year will be up soon, and I have been told that AST's might not count on a boat (it is a "constant cruiser", so moves around).

                  Can anyone advise?

                  thanks

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I suggest you post on the swarb legal forum as you need to establish whether there is/isn't a tenancy (of whatever kind) for starters.

                    http://swarb.co.uk/phpbb/index.php

                    Who drafted the contract?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      It was a standard one off the net, with the tenant adding the bit I copied in.

                      Before I find out whether AST counts on boats, which I dont think there is a set answer to, I would like to follow the procedure for AST possession: I haven't got long to serve the Section 21 (b) - would anyone be able to answer the following questions:

                      1. do I need to give him 48hrs notice to go round to serve it at his Dwelling?
                      2. would anyone look at the draft I have to check that I have done it correctly?
                      3. there is no letterbox, however there is a cat door - would that do?
                      4. is there anything I need to consider to do it completely correctly?

                      thanks

                      Comment


                        #12
                        No problem,

                        Tell us...
                        1. The start date of the last AST and its duration
                        2. The end date if there is one shown
                        3. Was a deposit taken, if so
                          1. When did you protect it
                          2. When was the 'prescribed information' given to T
                        Other than that, You can serve at any time, I am sure the cat-flap will be fine, but make sure you have a witness.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          section 21 (b) - what's correct procedure?

                          [QUOTE=westminster;242966]I suggest you post on the swarb legal forum as you need to establish whether there is/isn't a tenancy (of whatever kind) for starters.

                          I cannot register on the site -each time I tick that I agree with the terms I get "406 NOT ACCEPTABLE" . I dont know how to contact anyone on the site to report this. Can anyone help?

                          thanks

                          Comment


                            #14
                            [*]The start date of the last AST and its duration[*]The end date if there is one shown[*]Was a deposit taken, if so
                            1. When did you protect it
                            2. When was the 'prescribed information' given to T
                            [/LIST]Other than that, You can serve at any time, [/QUOTE]


                            start 23/11/09 end date 22/11/10, fixed AST 1yr. No deposite taken. Not sure what you mean by the prescribed information?

                            also what do you mean by "you can serve at any time" do you mean I do or dont need to give 24hrs notice?

                            thanks very much

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Have just noticed that this post has come up on google, and I was wanting to keep this private from my tenant by protecting dates and specifics. I can now see that if he puts in the Chelsea boat reference that I refered to, into google, it comes up third - is there anything I can do to remove this? Obviously I dont want him to be a party to info I am finding out?

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X