Force of sale

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    Force of sale

    Good evening all, I wonder if somebody can help with my predicament - I appreciate this is a landlordzone but seeing as the joint property owner is my mum who I pay rent to, you are my only hope.

    Basically, without wanting to bore you too much this is my circumstance. In April 2017 I bought a house for 160k, with 45k coming from me - and 115k coming from them. In cash. No mortgage.

    Now I have kept that house running, with all bills, and they have not paid squat.

    However, I recently met my partner, who is 13 years older than me and has been served notice by her landlady and has no where else to go. She also has a 12 year old child.

    Now my bat**** mental mother has, gone mental at this, because she HATES and I mean HATES my new partner and demanded 650 quid rent per month or she would go to the solicitors - 650 is market rate here for a 2 bed. I said no 450pcm because I am not going to rent off myself

    There is a 12 year old child in the house.

    Now - questions

    1) where do I stand legally
    2) can she force a sale if I don't agree - if not how long will it take
    3) I have proof of harassment from many police calls from her
    4) will I have to go to court
    5) she sent me a mail saying that I will have to pay court costs if it does go
    6) if I represent myself what do I need to do
    7) if you were in my position what would you do


    Thank you for reading this - any help appreciated. Tricky. Citizens advice were useless


    #2
    I would ask your Mom if she will give you your proportion (45/160th) of the value and you will move out.

    Yes your Mom can force a sale.
    She will have to go to court to do so if you resist, but you will lose (100% certain), and you will pay costs.
    And count on being disinherited too given you think so lowly of your mother.

    If you do rent the place it does seem reasonable that you pay (115/160th) of Market rate but it is also reasonable that you pay (45/160th) of the maintenance costs for the property.

    Being reasonable is everything here, and I am afraid you are not sounding reasonable. Your mother has the right to block a tenancy agreement with a tenant she does not like if a tenancy agreement is created.

    Being reasonable is important here.

    Comment


      #3
      But she does not live in the property. She has her own property which she owns outright. I own 45k of it. She owns 115k of it. Will I really have to pay court costs? She is being spiteful. Simply because she hates my partner and my partner's daughter. I am not a tenant but a joint owner.

      Comment


        #4
        It is not a financial sale - it's a forced sale - which she has refused a reasonable rental of 450 per calendar month. I am not paying market rate especially as I own my share. Please advise.

        Comment


          #5
          You pay market rate rent but a portion (28%) is paid to yourself. If you pay 450 then it would be reasonable that she keeps that whole amount (and that you also pay your share of maintenance costs).

          A co-owner has a right to sell a property, though if the co-owners refuse to cooperate a court hearing may be required to force them to do so. The court WILL force a sale under such circumstances unless there are very unusual circumstances (disabled dependent children and so on). As a minority owner you have no particular clout. The losing parties will pay costs. I have already advised.

          The fact that you hate each other is irrelevant, as is the fact that she has her own home.

          Comment


            #6
            But if I have already tried to be reasonable and offer 450 to my mother rather than 650 which she wants for a house we co-own together because she hates my partner and is being spiteful, how will any court in the land say that I am the losing party? I have said she can have the house providing I get my investment back? This is a nasty situation to be in and I have to fight her tooth and nail - seeing as she has not paid jack for the upkeep tax etc over two years?

            Comment


              #7
              You are the loser because the claim will be that sale needs to be ordered. You are resisting the sale, and you will likely lose the case. Therefore you will likely be liable for costs given that you should not have resisted. The other factors you mention are irrelevant.

              You will get (from a sale) what you ask for above - your investment back -- so why resist?

              What tax do you mean? - she is responsible for her own tax on the rental income you give to her (if any). If you are talking about Council tax, then you do pay it all as the occupant.

              If you were paying rent then the maintenance should be paid in the correct proportion. But you do not actually say you have been paying her £450 rent up to now (just that you have "offered" that since your partner moved in. So you can hardly live in a place where you only only a minor portion, pay no rent, and expect that somebody else pay to maintain it.

              Comment


                #8
                How is the property title set up?
                Are you joint owners (and if so, are you joint tenants or tenants in common)?
                Are you in England?
                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                Comment


                  #9
                  Have you tried looking at it through your mother's eyes? You've only recently met your partner who is considerably older than you and has a dependent child. Perhaps she thinks your partner is looking for a meal ticket and she is trying to protect you. Why can't your partner find themselves a new rental property? If your relationship is still going strong in a year or two and your mum can see she makes you happy perhaps she will feel differently.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    There speaks a very wise Owl Royw.Sometimes parents act in a very proactive way even after one has flown the nest.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by royw View Post
                      Have you tried looking at it through your mother's eyes? You've only recently met your partner who is considerably older than you and has a dependent child. Perhaps she thinks your partner is looking for a meal ticket and she is trying to protect you.
                      This is a valid concern, but there are other ways to protect the asset that don't involve charging a high rent (which doesn't seem to protect the property in itself, other than as a deterrent).

                      Until the OP confirms the answers to the questions in #8, we're a bit stuck.
                      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I thought his mother might be trying to protect HIM rather than the property. To me her intransigence suggests this is more than just a financial concern. She's been happy to put in a large amount of money in with no financial return which looks as though she's been trying to do her best for her son. Of course I don't know her, I may be completely wrong.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by royw View Post
                          I thought his mother might be trying to protect HIM rather than the property. To me her intransigence suggests this is more than just a financial concern. She's been happy to put in a large amount of money in with no financial return which looks as though she's been trying to do her best for her son. Of course I don't know her, I may be completely wrong.
                          Yup that's how I took it. The issue is a moral and societal one and one of fairness. It is not about how son can best ride roughshod over mom who it seems has been trying to help (bet she provided the 45K share contributed by son too). It COULD become a legal issue (for example if it held jointly and not as TiC son COULD do bad things to his mom). Once we get to that question we are far gone.

                          If you accept gifts then you accept the strings that come with those gifts - and don't call the gifter an evil scoundrel.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I should add that I suspect the subtext here has everything to do with law and practice to do with divorce settlements. In that domain lies the biggest cause of inter-generational inequality -- but we are not allowed to talk about that because protection of divorced parties is somehow sacrosanct, and the right of parents to SAFELY gift to their children and nurture their children (as has happened for generations) is not.

                            Bet you that mom has bent over backwards helping her kid (having slaved her whole life to do so), and now sees the prospect of all of her hard earned cash going to some random older woman with a 12 year old child after a 3 year marriage and divorce. She is nervous as she should be. But then what do I know....

                            Comment


                              #15
                              If they're joint tenants, the mother almost certainly can't sell the property without the son's consent.
                              If they're tenants in common it will depend if there's a trust document and, if so, what it says.
                              If there isn't, it's possible for the mother to get a court to agree to a sale of the entire property over the son's wishes, but that's not a sure thing, would be expensive and probably reduce the sale value of the property.

                              The mother has either secured the property from leaving the family as part of a trust associated with the purchase or she hasn't - that's something (else) we don't know.

                              The son has obviously consented to the property being let, because his mother seems to be the landlord.
                              I can't see anything that stops her increasing the rent - unless there's a tenancy agreement or fixed term in the way.

                              I truly don't see how charging the son's partner's rent achieves any of the goals we're inferring.
                              It doesn't protect the son, the partner and child are already there - so it doesn't dissuade them from moving in, and creating a tenancy gives the partner more rights not fewer.
                              If the worry is that the hated partner will inveigle their way into possession via marriage or gift, that horse has already, pretty much, left the barn if it's not already covered by a trust agreement or property restriction.

                              I have an instinctive and prejudiced dislike of the OP's view of the situation, based entirely on these two statements:
                              " In April 2017 I bought a house for 160k, with 45k coming from me - and 115k coming from them. In cash. No mortgage."
                              and
                              "Now I have kept that house running, with all bills, and they have not paid squat."
                              I'm not sure in what sense the OP "bought" anything and I find it hard to get past the anger at "them" not paying "squat" (since the original £70,000.)


                              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                              Comment

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