Do we realy need an EPC?

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    #16
    Originally posted by Rodent1 View Post
    Until guvmint decide that a min level must be attained ......which won't be too far away methinks..
    7 years, to be precise:

    From the Guardian, 15 June

    "Landlords will be forced to refurbish hundreds of thousands of the UK's most draughty and energy-inefficient homes or find themselves blocked from renting them out, under proposals unveiled on Tuesday.

    The government has bowed to pressure from campaigners and brought forward an amendment to its energy bill, discussed by MPs yesterday, that would stop landlords from renting out homes that fell into the worst two bands of energy efficiency – F and G. The clause was missing from the original bill."

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      #17
      Ya seee...............
      A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
      W.Churchill

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        #18
        http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...at-effect-on-L

        The usefulness of EPCs increases in direct proportion to the rise in the cost of household energy bills.

        Unless one instals solar panels, a ground source heat pump or a windmill (which may or may not be practical/cost effective in the medium term for you), then domestic energy bills, it is fairly safe to say, are only going one way (up).

        Scottish Power : increase of up to 19% from August...other providers' increases to follow.
        'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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          #19
          Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
          http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...at-effect-on-L

          The usefulness of EPCs increases in direct proportion to the rise in the cost of household energy bills.

          Unless one instals solar panels, a ground source heat pump or a windmill (which may or may not be practical/cost effective in the medium term for you), then domestic energy bills, it is fairly safe to say, are only going one way (up).

          Scottish Power : increase of up to 19% from August...other providers' increases to follow.
          We have an optimist in our midst :-)

          ... multiplied by the degree to which the number out of the EPC model actually reflects what is possible with energy efficiency.

          In fact they promote reasonable practice by not being capable of reflecting best practice.

          Example: excellent cavity wall insulation vs bog-standard cavity wall insulation. All they have is a tickbox unless you pay £££ for the alternative algorithm.

          ML
          Refer Mad Regulators to Arkell vs Pressdram.

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            #20
            Originally posted by Ericthelobster View Post
            7 years, to be precise:

            From the Guardian, 15 June

            "The government has bowed to pressure from campaigners and brought forward an amendment to its energy bill, discussed by MPs yesterday, that would stop landlords from renting out homes that fell into the worst two bands of energy efficiency – F and G. The clause was missing from the original bill."
            Surely one issue here is that houses which are incapable of meeting F & G may become illegal to be rented out.

            It won't happen?

            Yes it could. They just won't think about it when drafting the regulations.

            This is the problem with many 'campaigners'. They live in offices within 400m of Westminster and rely on spreadsheets not reality.

            ML
            Refer Mad Regulators to Arkell vs Pressdram.

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              #21
              Originally posted by midlandslandlord View Post
              Surely one issue here is that houses which are incapable of meeting F & G may become illegal to be rented out.

              It won't happen?

              Yes it could. They just won't think about it when drafting the regulations.

              This is the problem with many 'campaigners'. They live in offices within 400m of Westminster and rely on spreadsheets not reality.

              ML
              I hope it does happen. I would not wish a rental property rated F or G on a dog. The tenant would need a mortgage just to heat the place. If it makes LLs improve their draughty, poorly insulated properties or replace clapped out heating systems, then good.
              'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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                #22
                As it happens I have an example to hand :-), MTG.

                I'd welcome your comments.

                Substantial 2 bedroom bungalow on half an acre, substantially refurbished in 2005 and 2007 in 2 bites. Well-built in the 1950s (the farming couple who built it for themselves lived there for 40 years) with stone block/concrete block cavity wall.

                Current status:

                Phenolic cavity wall insulation. IIRC that is 2-3x better than the normal 'warmfront' type. That higher quality does not even register in the EPC calculation.
                250mm of roof insulation.
                'Mostly' double glazed. One loo, the pantry and the back door (with its own corridor before you get to anything) are not double-glazed.
                New kitchen, laminate floors etc which are not really relevant to energy.
                Off-peak electric boiler with flexible boost, as the gas supply is half a mile away either way.
                Radiators with TRVs, timer programmer, thermostats etc.

                Energy efficiency rating: Just made it into F. 21 out of 100. All the EPC elements are 4*, except for Main Heating *, Windows ** and Hot Water ***. Floor insulation and Secondary heating do not apply.

                The improvement potential is rated a "none possible" - which I question because the few windows not yet replaced could be doubleglazed. It won't make an E, though.

                It is significant that EPC is a crude tool - a point I made earlier in the thread. When you use a crude tool to impose simplistic measures with little flexibility, you make serious mistakes. They could do it if there was a fit-for-purpose EPC system, which we don't have, or some flexibility in the new law.

                Under the proposed amendment, this property could not be legally rented.

                It is not drafty, nor over expensive to heat, nor poorly insulated, nor unsuitable for a dog. And it has been successfully rented for at least the last decade.

                This is why having universal rules designed by chinless wonders with their heads up their bottoms wibbling away in Whitehall is *wrong*, and that is (partly) why we are in our current mess.

                That's always the problem with mad, centralising, regulators. They think they know best in all cases.

                They don't.

                Special cases are necessary, because they exist in the world outside Excel spreadsheets, and rules must be drafted to permit exceptions.

                Rgds

                ML
                Refer Mad Regulators to Arkell vs Pressdram.

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                  #23
                  I know of a building that would score highly (B) on an EPC but due to poor workmanship to the sub structure it costs a fortune to run (although it's improving as the workmanship is made good).

                  It is indeed a crude tool and not fit for assessing a building.
                  There is always scope for misinterpretation.

                  If my posts can be interpreted in two ways, one that makes you feel angry and one that doesn't, I meant the latter.

                  Everyday is an opportunity to learn something new.

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                    #24
                    This will come on in 2018.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by asheri View Post
                      This will come on in 2018.
                      Asheri, are you building up your post count with inane posts so that you can link to some pathetic website?

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                        #26
                        Epc

                        I have an epc on a flat that i rent out.

                        It says cavity wall insulation. assumed
                        Loft insulation. Assumed.
                        Recommend changing 50% of the lights to energy saving.
                        There are 5 lights.

                        The above epc on the flat is official.

                        In my opinion its not worth a fly.
                        Mrs Dingle

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                          #27
                          anyone know if holiday rentals in scotland will need this useless piece of paper?
                          Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

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