EPC- why's my property rated worse than next door?

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    #1

    EPC- why's my property rated worse than next door?

    I recently had an EPC certificate done and I am a little concerned. The apartment next to mine does not have energy light bulbs I do, he does not have curtains (I have blinds and curtains) he has laminate flooring and I have good quality carpets and underlay, yet their EPC is far superior to mine. We have the same boiler as do all the apartments, could there be any other reason for my lower ratings? I am selling my apartment and it doesn't look good. Or, did my man do a more thorough job than the apartment next to mine.

    Confused...
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    #2
    Originally posted by alanr View Post
    I recently had an EPC certificate done and I am a little concerned. The apartment next to mine does not have energy light bulbs I do, he does not have curtains (I have blinds and curtains) he has laminate flooring and I have good quality carpets and underlay, yet their EPC is far superior to mine. We have the same boiler as do all the apartments, could there be any other reason for my lower ratings? I am selling my apartment and it doesn't look good. Or, did my man do a more thorough job than the apartment next to mine.

    Confused...

    The flooring and curtains will not have been used in the calculation at all.

    Are the flats identical in their internal size and design?
    Is your flat on the same floor of the building as his?
    Does it have more external walls than his?
    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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      #3
      Imagine the apartments are a travel inn, long corridor with rooms either side. My apartment adjoins the one with the better EPC, we both only have 1 externall window wall. Both 750 sq ft, same number and size of windows and doors etc. so it's a mystery why they should be different other than we used different companies.

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        #4
        Originally posted by alanr View Post
        Imagine the apartments are a travel inn, long corridor with rooms either side. My apartment adjoins the one with the better EPC, we both only have 1 externall window wall. Both 750 sq ft, same number and size of windows and doors etc. so it's a mystery why they should be different other than we used different companies.
        What are the two different energy efficiency ratings produced (for your flat and his)? By this I mean the percentages on the front pages of the reports.

        And just out of interest, what do the reports say the EERs could be, if energy saving measures were adopted? (That's the second graph).
        'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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          #5
          Mine says current 71 ...potential 71
          His says current 75 ....potential 80

          The other side says

          Mine says current..... 70 potential 70
          His says current..... 72 potential 75

          So basically mine both say no room for improvement but his do. It makes no sense to me at all.

          I feel I have either been let down or his agent was too good.

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by alanr View Post
            Mine says current 71 ...potential 71
            His says current 75 ....potential 80

            The other side says

            Mine says current..... 70 potential 70
            His says current..... 72 potential 75

            So basically mine both say no room for improvement but his do. It makes no sense to me at all.

            I feel I have either been let down or his agent was too good.
            Sorry, what do you mean by 'the other side'? You seem to have four different sets of ratings here . You should only have two (one current and one potential for your flat and for his).

            Please just verify - any difference in numbers of external walls (regardless of windows)?

            Also, assuming the windows are all double glazed, what recommendations are made for improvements on his cert. which (presumably) are missing from yours?
            'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by alanr View Post
              I recently had an EPC certificate done and I am a little concerned. The apartment next to mine does not have energy light bulbs I do, he does not have curtains (I have blinds and curtains) he has laminate flooring and I have good quality carpets and underlay, yet their EPC is far superior to mine. We have the same boiler as do all the apartments, could there be any other reason for my lower ratings? I am selling my apartment and it doesn't look good. Or, did my man do a more thorough job than the apartment next to mine.

              Confused...
              The problem is, although these things are required by law, the system is flawed and there are anomolies in the way two different surveyors will calculate it. Even though they may use the same software, it's what you enter that matters. All being equal, you should have the same EPC rating as your neighbour. The fact that you don't proves this point.

              Comment

                #8
                alanr : Just realised the figures on 'the other side' relate to carbon dioxide production, so leave those aside for now.

                If the flats are in every way identical and neither of you has installed any additional heaters/radiators, the only other thing which would make a difference to your respective ratings would be what is on the other side of the appartment walls - i.e., whether it is another appartment (which would insulate you maximally) or a 'sheltered wall', such as a stairwell wall, which is not as cold as an external wall but colder than another inhabited space.

                If none of the features I've mentioned so far differs between your flats, then they should in theory have very similar or identical EPC ratings and it would be reasonable to assume that one Domestic Energy Assessor had fed a wrong measurement into the programme which they all use to calculate the overall energy efficiency rating. The fact that your flat haas energy saving bulbs suggests that yours should be slightly better than his and the potential for improvement slightly less, so I would hazard a guess and say that your inspector was the more accurate and his was wrong about something!

                Your EPC will still look very respectable for sale purposes, since 70% is much higher than average (50%) for residential properties generally and it shows that it is already optimally efficient, unlike his. Unless he is selling his appartment at the same time, buyers will not know about his anyway, will they?

                If it really bugs you, you could always complain to the two companies which produced your two certs and demand that the same inspector do both - but I doubt it is worth it for a few % points. Or you could get his DEA to do yours, in which case you would expect yours to be slightly better - but don't bank on it!

                I would however be interested to know how he thought your neighbour could improve his EER by 5 points, as the light bulbs in themselves would not make that much difference.

                I wouldn't worry about it. The difference is not staggering.
                'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Glencairn View Post
                  The problem is, although these things are required by law, the system is flawed and there are anomolies in the way two different surveyors will calculate it. Even though they may use the same software, it's what you enter that matters. All being equal, you should have the same EPC rating as your neighbour. The fact that you don't proves this point.
                  They should indeed have the same or a similar rating if the appartments are identical. They may not be - which is what I have been trying to establish. Until we know that, it is probably unhelpful to wade in and denounce the 'system' as flawed.

                  The system itself is not flawed in any case - but as with any task which has an approved method based on a theoretical body of knowledge but which involves a practical element (science experiments, dentistry, marking A level papers, cookery, surveying, architecture, speaking a foreign language, repairing a vehicle - most things in life, in fact!) there will always be scope for variation in results. For complicated reasons, we had two surveyors work out the RSJ sizes for a loft conversion. They both did pages and pages of specialised-looking mathematics, but there were differences between what they come up with.

                  DEAs are only human - and sometimes humans make mistakes! In this case the error is not enormous. If (assuming identical flats) one of them had come up with a figure which was different by 20 percentage points, I would be asking for a 're-mark'!
                  'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Sorry for delay in replying but the short answer is that the 2 apartments are indeed 'identical'. That was why I was surprised at his EPC. He is not selling he is renting out his apartment, I am selling mine both are on Rightmove website that is where I saw the different readings. Hopefully buyers and renters will not spot the difference.

                    I don't wish to go out and get another person to do an EPC so if it is a reasonably good score then I will just go with it, but thanks for all the information it may be useful to others also.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Do not worry about it - do you think this will be a factor? If both are on the market the only thing you have to worry about is getting a price lift based on higher quality self installed fittings.

                      I have seen, in new flats, a DROP in the EIR value if energy saving measures are implemented (eg the new measures, while more efficient, have a higher environment impact).
                      Liability statement. My liability to you is not to exceed the amount you are paying for my recommendations or advice.

                      I see a bright new future, where chickens can cross the road with no fear of having their motives questioned

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Less-serious posts have been moved/copied from this thread to http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=16845.

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