Meet EPC Fail EIR

[jpucng62]

So.....I have just participated in the NRLAs webinar on EPC C. What I learned was that it is known that EPC is a crude tool based on cost of heating your property and that it will be replaced at some point by EIR - based on the Carbon emissions of your property.

That means that you will need gas to get your property to EPC C by 2026/8 but then it will fail on carbon emissions when they switch to EIR when electricity scores higher because it is clean.

My new plan - sell all victorian properties & electric properties before EPC C comes in then sell all properties with GCH when EIR comes in. So instead of selling 7 of 11 I will now be selling all 11.

Sorry homeless tenants - but I just can't win at this game so you lose too

[royw]

They will have changed their minds at least 3 times before then...

[AlexR]

This is a massive issue. I had a few terraced properties and I decided to upgrade one of them which cost in excess of £20,000 to get it to an EPC C rating. I had thought that the house was future proofed ( as I did almost everything possible to upgrade it ) and it is indeed depressing to think that I may be facing a further large refurb. to convert from gas to whatever within the next few years.

What I find it unfair that that the social sector seem to be running a very inefficient operation as evidenced by housing associations and local councils being criticised for their poor management of housing being detailed in the press almost daily.

[L4NDLORD]

If anyone hears more about EIR please share.

[L4NDLORD]

found something relevant to all with older type investment properties

[JK0]

found something relevant to all with older type investment properties

Just tried wading through that. Have you ever read such a load of b*llocks in your life?

[royw]

No, but I'm someone thinks the thousands we paid for it was worth it. It's full of buzzwords so it must be good. 🙄

[L4NDLORD]

JK0 you took tbe words right out of my mouth. Decarbonisation iin UK is pretty irrelevant unless everyone in the world is on board. Timetables are returning for the thousands of daily internal flights in the USA, ships belting out burnt crude in international waters etc. In other words its all tokenism. Sure we can increase insulation, and more efficient lighting/heating, but with Housing Associtations and Councils exempt its so unevenly law against private landlords so as to be absurd. Something must give. If we are anything to go by, huge energy efficiency progress have been made with a certain number of Bs and C;s scored but there are many D's that it would be uncommercial to get to a C let alone a B.

No one has yet claimed the prize I put up if achieving an EPC of an A on a flat

[L4NDLORD]

Ive just been looking for any A graded EPCs. New office space in the City said to be net zero by its developers actually scored a mid to low B.

[Macromia]

JK0 you took tbe words right out of my mouth. Decarbonisation iin UK is pretty irrelevant unless everyone in the world is on board.

^^^ This pretty much sums up why any change is so much slower than it needs to be - too many people in every country in the world are more interested in passing the buck than taking responsibility for what they can change.

The reality is that a majority of people in most countries in the world are "on board", it's just that many of the those who aren't tend to have a louder voice, giving them a disproportional affect on policy and helping them to keep enough of the people without as much influence (or money) convinced that change isn't in their best interests.
Of course, it is also true that the majority of people currently alive won't see much benefit from policies that limit carbon emissions (in fact, most won't see any benefit at all). Changes that are made now are for the benefit of children that are growing up now, their children, and future generations.

It's also (perhaps) worth pointing out that that the countries that are currently being vilified for their contributions to carbon emissions (such as China and India) still have per capita carbon emissions that are only about half of those of more developed western countries, or less, and that's without taking into account historical emissions.
Also, despite having a considerably lower GDP per capita, China currently gets a comparable percentage of their energy from renewable sources to most countries in Europe, and India's percentage from renewables is close to that of the USA. On actual 'dollar value' 2019 figures suggest that China put more funding into development of green energy than the next three highest spending countries combined, and the fourth highest spending country was India (behind the US and Japan) who spent almost twice as much as any single European country.

[jpucng62]

Macromia, you may be right - but the point of my post was that the contrary policies of our Govt make it impossible to know how to hit the arbitrary targets being imposed on the PRS and the result will be me and others, I believe, leaving the PRS.

[L4NDLORD]

It would seem that EPC itself may be much reformed within the next few years with electric heating less hevily caned by the scoring. Someone in the know marked my cars to concentrate on insulation improvements and not so much changing the type of fuel and that is the line we are following

[sgkelsey]

One of the problems that has been highlighted is that by improving a property's EPC the emissions might get worse. So we could all spend time and money getting an EPC to find that our properties fall far short of the requirements of the planned EIR. The government is using the wrong tool (EPC) measuring the energy efficiency to reduce carbon emissions. This is not what the EPC does!

[royw]

I would make a start only I don't know what I should do and what will be considered 'adequate' when they finally decide. Will insulated plaster board be enough? Anything thicker will make some rooms too small. Have they tested external insulation on stone houses? Given there's no damp proof course and the walls are designed to breathe will it end up in damp, mouldy houses? What about digging up solid floors where the foundations aren't very deep? I'm also concerned that any money I spend now won't count towards the limit. I'll do much of the work myself so there'll only be an invoice for materials which the EPC assessor may disregard.

[landlord-man]

Just heard that all new properties will have bathrooms on ground floor.

Water will be plumbed to the roof space and you will generate "tidal power" on a turbine when you turn on a tap, shower or toilet on ground floor.

That will generate the permitted power consumption for 1 light bulb per day.

Households will unforrunately be taxed at a higher rate for the water consumption.

The Gov believes this scheme will prove particularly attractive to those in high rise buildings who, despite having to come down 20 floors for a pee, will have an ample supply of water in the roof space should there be a fire from the cladding in place.