Electro Magnetic Interference known as EMI

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    I googled and the very first thing I found was an academic paper which contains the following statement: "Electromagnetic interference (EMI) remains a serious problem of security cameras because this harmful disturbance affects both the device itself and all electronic devices located in the vicinity." So not hocus pocus - unless you define hocus pocus as anything which interferes with profit.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
      I googled and the very first thing I found was an academic paper which contains the following statement: "Electromagnetic interference (EMI) remains a serious problem of security cameras because this harmful disturbance affects both the device itself and all electronic devices located in the vicinity." So not hocus pocus - unless you define hocus pocus as anything which interferes with profit.
      Yes it can interfere with radio signals, some WIFI signals and the like. Not BREAK circuit boards of radios and boilers 25 yards away.

      In any case the paper you refer to (for what it is worth) is simply looking at whether there is detection of a signal at 3 metres, not breaking boilers. It might interfere with radios but not break them. Likewise it might interfere with wireless boiler thermostats (but not break them).

      There are certainly some potential health effects of electrical fields, but these are probably minimal (if at all) for home appliances, but it's an open question (I don't wear an aluminium foil hat, but might do so).

      https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-de...agnetic-fields

      Anyway, as I said googling and reading the first thing you see is likely to mislead....

      It's been known since the earliest days of radio communication. There was a chap in a village last year with a faulty TV that made it impossible for anyone in the village to connect to Wifi. But he didn't cause boilers to fail or heads to explode.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
        I googled and the very first thing I found was an academic paper which contains the following statement: "Electromagnetic interference (EMI) remains a serious problem of security cameras because this harmful disturbance affects both the device itself and all electronic devices located in the vicinity."
        Their written English isn't too good, but it goes on to say 'The analyzed device may be considered as safe because it meets the requirements specified by standards.'

        All electronic devices will cause some EMI, there was no evidence that CCTV is worse than any other device. I suspect that the fridges and lights in the shop will be creating more, and lets hope that nobody in any of the flats uses a microwave oven, wifi or a mobile phone.

        Comment


          #19
          It's really sad in the United Kingdom that Electro Magnetic Interference is considered a joke electrical circuits are being magnetized and damaged rendering equipment useless nothing will be done now bear in mind there are five children living from time to time in this building lets consider the harmful effect on their health lets also consider nobody who has a heart pacemaker can walk into this building rumours going around this system was purchased cheaply from a garage forecourt the garage closed down and sold it's equipment rumours are this equipment was purchased for next to nothing and is too powerful for this building silly things happen then problems occur.

          Comment


            #20
            If you think that there is a device that emits an unsafe amount of interference, report it to your local authority.

            It's very unlikely to be powerful enough to cause damage to people's health, though.
            It would be difficult for a cctv camera to have access to sufficient power to generate interference of sufficient strength to harm humans - it might interfere with a TV or Radio signal (or affect wifi) though.
            Think how big and pwerful the magnet has to be on an MRI machine to push a signal through a human being so it can be detected on the other side.
            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

            Comment


              #21
              Certainly Heart Pacemakers are very sensitive the shopkeeper switched off the CCTV in order for his friend to enter the shop, Technicians associated with Heart Pacemakers will tell you of the dangers involved with radio waves, from reading your article I'm glad to say you have an open mind, days ago I was watching a Tv programme from New Zealand called Grand Designs New Zealand and this Builder was building a new home near a Radio Mast and he was insulating his home against EMI Electro Magnetic Interference to some cost the programme showed the satellite transmitter was near his home, the Shopkeeper in my case doesn't give a dam and I'm sorry to say I don't think Ofcom does either I was years ago a Radio Ham if I was to transmit outside the allowed wavelengths or transmitted above my allowed Watts Ofcom would of been after me straightaway so how come they aren't interested I brought them in four years ago and they half heartedly asked the Shopkeeper not to use his CCTV Security system someone on this forum wrote "He didn't believe it could effect Central Heating Boilers he mentioned 25 yards away I never mentioned twenty five yards I own the flat above this shop we were talking a matter of feet. I must admit I'm disappointed with The Landlord Zone Forum I thought I would be able to get to the bottom of this I was expecting experts only I honestly believe in this case I'm simply living in the wrong country. Please Landlord Zone you are Government run please bring in experts to give advise as I feel we are simply going around in circles please help.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Paul 41 View Post
                Please Landlord Zone you are Government run please bring in experts to give advise as I feel we are simply going around in circles please help.
                Landlordzone is not run by the government.
                Nor is it limited to input from experts.

                Heart pacemakers are sensitive to electronic interference (but increasingly less so), but you're unlikely to have any kind of issue from a cctv camera. There's just not much power passing through the device to create much interference, even if the device was defective.
                The first sign of a problem would be interference on your radio, because the radio waves aren't that strong.

                Someone in New Zealand dealing with a radio mast is a different order of magnitude to a cctv camera. Radio masts are designed to broadcast radio waves, cameras aren't.

                Offcom are not the regulatory body for this, it would be your local authority environmental health department. But they'd want some evidence of actual harm.
                A boiler control panel can go wrong for any number of reasons - interference from a camera is one of the least likely - anything powerful enough to do that would be damaging all kinds of other things, unless you think it's not only powerful, it's also focussed - which seems even less likely.
                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Paul 41 View Post
                  It's really sad in the United Kingdom that Electro Magnetic Interference is considered a joke electrical circuits are being magnetized and damaged rendering equipment useless nothing will be done now bear in mind there are five children living from time to time in this building lets consider the harmful effect on their health lets also consider nobody who has a heart pacemaker can walk into this building rumours going around this system was purchased cheaply from a garage forecourt the garage closed down and sold it's equipment rumours are this equipment was purchased for next to nothing and is too powerful for this building silly things happen then problems occur.
                  Hi Paul,
                  Whilst I sympathize that you have experienced faulty equipment like your boiler. I really can't see the fault being with the CCTV system?

                  Yes all electronic devices produce EMI (they are so low it is normally insignificant) I wonder if you are assuming that as the CCTV equipment is 'commercial' grade and not 'domestic', then this must be the cause and are therefore blinkered or open to suggestions of other causes. This is causing you to search Google and find any reference that fits your needs, therefore further supporting your theory.

                  What do you think is the difference in power consumption of a 'commercial' CCTV system? Cameras use 5-15W of power. Add Infra red and pan/tilt motors for what could be conceived to be commercial specification, (I will assume 5 camera system, plus DVR) so we are looking at a system of approximately 150Watts. You are comparing this to a radio mast in New Zealand? In all honesty, I doubt there is any difference in the system installed in a garage to what any one would have in their own home. The main difference would be larger cameras that need to see 100's of Meters away, fully motorised with long range IR, not 8M in a shop.

                  I doubt the camera could be that faulty to generate the type of 'noise' that would take out your boiler, it just wont have anywhere near the power, plus as other have said, you would lose other electronic devices before your boiler.

                  Usually, EMI and CCTV when discussed have the opposite problem. EMI is causing interference with CCTV systems and not the other way around. Engineers are trying to filter out interference on monitors and CCTV systems, not concerned with them interfering with other devices.


                  As another poster has said, the other equipment in the shop will be causing far more interference with electronic devices. Lights, Till, Computer, Freezer/Fridge, Heating, WiFi, TV's, machinery, etc..... all adding 'noise' to your system.

                  Has it occurred to you that the shop owner has even less idea about EMI than you, when his friend has visited with a pacemaker he turned his CCTV off because YOU have started a rumour and put this doubt in his mind? this further compounds the rumour as you have now interpreted this action that it must be true and the CCTV is at fault?

                  There are many other causes for a boiler to breakdown. If you lose more electronic items at the same time, my money would be on a voltage spike.

                  As for the children visiting, I think you should try and not worry. They are exposed to far more EMI from High Voltage power lines, microwaves etc. than a CCTV system will every output.

                  Whatever did we do before Google?

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Some setting up of Aunt Sallies here.

                    First, whilst I said that the site I quoted from was the first I looked at, I never said it was the only one I looked at.

                    I quoted from that site because it is an academic source and states unequivocally that EMI from security cameras causes interference with nearby devices. Nothing says that it causes harm to people or damages equipment. It may well be that the damage to the OP's boiler is not down to EMI from the shop's security camera. It may indeed be the case that the interference suffered by the flats above the shop comes from another source.

                    We have three facts:

                    1. A shop has a security camera operating.

                    2. Security cameras emit EMI.

                    3. Properties neighbouring the shop are experiencing interference with their electronic devices.

                    The facts do not lead logically to the conclusion that the security camera is causing the interference. However, they certainly do not rule it out. Even if most security cameras do not cause problems, the shop camera may be sub-standard or malfunctioning and emitting more EMI than it should. The true position can only be established by investigation. A simple test would be to have the affected devices and the camera turned on at the same time and then for the camera to be turned of and after an interval turned back on again. If interference occurs while the camera is on but not when it is off that will be pretty conclusive that it is causing the interference. Failing that I would be surprised if there is not some equipment which can establish the source of the interference. Wherever it is coming from there is a problem which needs looking into.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Look up EMC - Electro Magnetic Compatibility: briefly, electronic equipment shouldn't CAUSE interference, it should also be designed so as not to be interfered with by nearby equipment.
                      Equipment sold in UK / EU should have a 'CE' marking on it which denotes it meets standards current at the time of manufacture.
                      Unfortunately the rules aren't policed, investigations only take place when there's a problem.
                      A further complication is tha China have cottoned on to the CE marking and have produced their own - theirs stands for China Export and it means absolutely nothing re EMC / EMI / RFI.
                      I would be VERY surprised if a CCTV system could generate a sufficiently strong field to cause the problems you're experiencing.
                      An easy but crude way of checking if EMI is being radiated is to walk around it with a MW or LM radio - any radiated interference should be audible.
                      Note that modern electronics often use Switched Mode Power Supplies (SMPS) that are notorious generators of RFI - although it would have to be a hell of a big SMPS to cause the problems you're experiencing.

                      If I was in your situation I'd contact whoever supplies the electricity to the property. I strongly suspect that any interference strong enough to cause problems like that are mains-borne.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
                        We have three facts:

                        1. A shop has a security camera operating.

                        2. Security cameras emit EMI.

                        3. Properties neighbouring the shop are experiencing interference with their electronic devices.
                        EVERY electrical device emits EMI. Various devices also deliberately emit high levels of EM.

                        There are standards for how much is acceptable, CCTV devices do not generally emit more than other devices - they are typically quite sensitive to EMI themselves. (The power supply is probably the major emitter, and lots of devices have those).

                        While it is just about possible that these CCTV devices are faulty and emitting much more EMI than they should, and this EMI is causing an electrical fault, we don't even know if there is a significant amount of EMI. There are many more likely causes of the fault than EMI, and even if that was the cause, this is far more likely to come from one of the many other electrical appliances in the vicinity.

                        Blaming the CCTV involves a chain of unlikely assumptions all being true - with zero evidence that any of them are, other than 'it is possible'.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          I suspect the CCTV cameras are wireless, and that is what is causing the problem. I can't even use a mobile phone without getting a headache.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Ted.E.Bear View Post

                            EVERY electrical device emits EMI. Various devices also deliberately emit high levels of EM.

                            There are standards for how much is acceptable, CCTV devices do not generally emit more than other devices - they are typically quite sensitive to EMI themselves. (The power supply is probably the major emitter, and lots of devices have those).

                            While it is just about possible that these CCTV devices are faulty and emitting much more EMI than they should, and this EMI is causing an electrical fault, we don't even know if there is a significant amount of EMI. There are many more likely causes of the fault than EMI, and even if that was the cause, this is far more likely to come from one of the many other electrical appliances in the vicinity.

                            Blaming the CCTV involves a chain of unlikely assumptions all being true - with zero evidence that any of them are, other than 'it is possible'.
                            The above is the sort measured response this thread needs.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              My Flat is sandwiched between the ground floor shop and the Flat above which is residential the shop uses CCTV cameras the shop was closed for 12 months a few years ago and I know for a fact my signal on my mobile phone was strong throughout my Flat it's poor nowadays I've never liked their CCTV camera's the Flat above mine has suspicious tenants their electric meter is on the blink some of the time and yet they have electricity maybe they have a Cannabis farm there's been talk of it and there was a strong odour of Cannabis coming from there about two years ago at the entrance of this Flat a Cannabis farm would cause a high magnetic field I think I've reached a difficult stage now it's looking far more serious than I had originally thought so having reached this stage I will bow out of this forum and try and sort out this problem although I have to thank everyone who contributed to this subject I don't think I would of reached this conclusion without you all so thank you.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Mobile 'phone! Oh no, that emits EMI
                                I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                                Comment

                                Latest Activity

                                Collapse

                                Working...
                                X